A Different Type of Money System: Social Credit
Posted by Socrates in bankers, banking, Big Finance, Ezra Pound, jew financial crimes, jewed finance, money, Social Credit system, Socrates at 6:45 pm | 
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The poet Ezra Pound was an advocate of Social Credit, by the way [1].
This online book makes some good points about wealth, money and credit, e.g., having wealth and having money is not the same thing. It allows the reader to think about Western money systems in an outside-of-the-box manner.
Social Credit is based on real credit and real production, not on inflationary fiat money or fractional-reserve ledger entries. Here, the book says that the state, not private bankers, should control money for the benefit of society:
“The conversion into money of real credit can only be exercised by a sovereign authority, acting in the name of society itself, and pursuing, not the banker’s profit, but the economic welfare of society as a whole.” (“real credit” = the ability to produce and deliver goods and services).
A Social Credit system could, in theory, be molded and shaped in different ways, according to a country’s needs.
Contrary to what some people believe about Social Credit, it need not be a “cashless” system.
Social Credit could, in theory, put an end to inflationary, interest-and-debt money systems in the West. But even if Social Credit isn’t as viable as some people believe it is, the idea could nonetheless lead to similar ideas which might eventually help Whites as a people [2][3]:
Chapter 14: [Here].
Chapter 15: [Here].
[1] Ezra Pound and Social Credit: [Here]
[2] more about Social Credit: [Here]
[3] a book about Social Credit: [Here]
28 March, 2008 at 7:24 pm
I recommend this short video to anyone wanting an introduction to how our monetary and banking system functions. Social credit money systems are also discussed. If you are new to the information presented here, then this video should prove to be a real eye opener for you.
Money as Debt
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9050474362583451279
28 March, 2008 at 8:54 pm
Just what is productive is an old debate. A good doesn’t become productive until there is a use for it, does it? By the same token, manufacturing a good and then dumping it in the ocean does reward the workers who made the good. LOL.
Btw, socializing banking profits is what credit unions are set up to do—right? Well maybe that was the original intent. It never works out in practice that way does it. LOL.
28 March, 2008 at 10:04 pm
There is in Quebec a chapter of the Michael movement or whatever you call this social credit-promoting organization. (Chapters 14 & 15 above). Their literature has an article on the origins of the federal reserve, etc. going back to the 1700s, the Rothschilds and so on. I ran into a fellow just a few months ago who was distributing this literature. How very strange, I thought, that I should just run into this person on the street.
28 March, 2008 at 11:59 pm
Olde Dutch has hit upon a most important issue for those of us who would like to live in an NS economic order, or even would like to help develop such an economic order.
An entire new area of economics is dealing explicitly with a lot of these issues. It is called ecological economics, and addresses quality of life issues – where our grossly misleading GDP numbers do not reflect our actual state of affairs.
Eric Beinhocker, of McKinsey, has written a very insightful book called “The Origin of Wealth.” It develops the foundation for new economic models based on social organization. One and all will recognize this as being part of the NS economic model – the State serves the citizens, and the financial sector serves the State and the citizens.
I suspect a new economic model, based on ecological economics, with an explicit model for accounting for externalities, might be possible – and even necessary – in the not-too-distant future.
Olde Dutch is right, by the way. GDP counts a manufactured good thrown into the ocean as positive economic growth. The same is true for a returned veteran, who requires extensive medical care for the rest of his life…
We are going to have to do better – a lot damn better – if our Posterity is not to inherit a cold, demon-ruled planet.
Covington made this point explicitly in his treatment of why the NS social order is the best for the Western Soul; simply stated, the economy serves the State, which serves the citizens. In our system, the citizens serve the State, which is ruled by the financial elite – pretty much the exact opposite of the proper ordering of things.
One point was made on Terrible Tommy Metzger’s radio show last April, by “Lita from New York” – one of the bright lights for our RACIAL future. She noted her disgust at how easily we adopted the role of Victim, before the ravages of the (demonic, God-damned) Jews.
It is OUR Power they are using, and OUR Creative Talents that we have placed at their service.
All we have to do is a slow version of Galt’s Strike, from “Atlas Shrugged,” and, in fact, this is what is happening right now in the former American Southwest:
We are withdrawing our consent to be governed under this state of affairs.
We are aware that the play in a rigged Game is of no value at all, to us, and a parallel system is being developed, quietly, softly, slowly, and effectively, that is de facto RACIAL in nature, and effect.
It is OUR Energy that has made this possible, at it will be OUR Energy that builds the foundation for the Next Society out of the ruins of this social ordering.
That, by the way, is remarkably good news – if we get beaten and kicked in the teeth often enough, sooner or later, we shall accept the power of our Shadows, and relearn the harsh lessons of our Ancestors – that Violence Solves Everything.
This response has wandered a bit – sorry for that 0 but one and all should remember a very insightful statement made by Alex Linder some time back.
Linder said (lightly paraphrasing), “Restore the Constitutional right of freedom of association, and allow any state in the union, no matter how desolate it may seem, to be WHITES ONLY. Hell, make it North Dakota, for all we care. Make it WHITES ONLY, and stand back as the greatest land rush in American history takes place, and the rest of the country just watches in helpless awe and amazement.”
He has been proven correct in the example of Southern California, where the White technocracy is fleeing as quickly as possible.
If they only had a Northwest Republic to flee to!
In time….
New America
An Idea Whose Time Is HERE!
29 March, 2008 at 2:19 am
Any money system that’s NOT based on the jewish practice of usury would be preferable to the one we have right now.
Usury is a form of economic parasitism which benefits no one other than the usurers (the jews).
29 March, 2008 at 8:25 am
Me, I’m no escapist. I already suggested we open a German National Bank with branches all across the mid-west.
Naturally, shares of German National Bank (GNB) stock will be subscribed at $1000 dollars. We might be able to get a bank in Deutschland to underwrite our venture & act as our investment bank?
I’m sure Alex can rally the German business community in Missouri to meet & greet for a token $ 1000 dollar donation to the GNB charity fund.
With big hard money guys like Newe willing to subscribe for a $ 100k—and not be concerned about how much interest he is making on his money. How can we lose.
29 March, 2008 at 10:56 am
Sieg Heil from Romania ! stay strong..
29 March, 2008 at 2:51 pm
The jews and their banking system need to be dealt with whatever the means. Not only that but their use of international commerce to judaise the world.
The jew needs to be purged of any influence or interest in our economy.
29 March, 2008 at 3:12 pm
in reply to Olde Dutch:
We must start where we are; the subprime contagion we exported to the world includes German financial institutions, as well.
Above all, we must face The Facts with a disciplined, focused ruthlessness not seen since our Ancestors conquered this continent – the Old Fashioned Way, with their motto being, “Violence Solves Everything.”
On 1 april 07 Metzger had a great conversation with “Lita from New York,” where she expressed her anger – contempt? – for what most of us have become. She is right in this, and it will take a lot of pain for us to being to change. We have become too anesthetized to our situation, for now.
On 2 april 07 Metzger gave what I believe to be his best commentary ever, when he discussed his realization that (1) this is our own damn fault, and (2) most people simply do not want to hear what we have to say, With about 75% of the (nominally) “Adult” population on prescription tranquilizers of one sort or another, and the rest trapped in the world of the Jew Tube, it will take a lot of pain for Those Who Remain to deal with the situation before them in the manner needed – By Any Means Necessary.
That is a telling point – no sense trying to forcefully Awaken your family, friends, and relatives. When they get tired of living in the Darkness, they will – slowly – turn towards the Light.
The good news is, people – the ones that make a positive difference, the ones that matter in a positive manner, the White people – are turning away from a failing system as fast as they can, with the creation of alternative institutions – notably, home schooling, and the institutions needed to support that.
We can reach them easily enough, as things get worse – and “Worse IS Better,” for us – because ALL of their solutions lead inevitably to a Positive Theory of RACE, in practice, with – de facto – White Supremacy being the system default that leads to excellence.
As a fountainhead of useful ideas in this area – at least from an economic perspective – one and all should download – FREE! – “A Distant Thunder,” from http://nwtrilogy.blogspot.com/
Then, look to pages 138 – 150, where he defines the essential QUALITATIVE difference between an NS economic system, and the demon-controlled Jewish system of usury, and financial capitalism.
Hell, the German bankers might be seeking the aid of OUR Posterity one of these decades.
And, don’t kid yourself – if North Daokta – desolate, cold, forbidden – was made “WHITES ONLY,” in fifty years our Posterity would watch the lift-off of our Mars Colonization Expedition, from THEIR Racial Homeland.
New America
An Idea Whose Time Is HERE!
29 March, 2008 at 5:55 pm
With big hard money guys like Newe willing to subscribe for a $ 100k–and not be concerned about how much interest he is making on his money. How can we lose.
Privately owned banks need to charge “interest” (usury) on loans because that’s how they make a profit.
State-owned banks don’t need to charge “interest” because they’re not operated as a profit-making business.
The jews want privately owned banks.
I want state-owned banks.
29 March, 2008 at 6:27 pm
in reply to Anon:
you wrote:
in reply:
Good point, but it might go deeper than that.
I suspect one of the shortfalls of the WN “Movement” has been its characterization of the demons-who-walk-the-Earth-known-as-JEWS as being the source of our problems.
While these people, who “are of their Father, the Devil,” certainly have much to atone for, it is no less true that the demonic Jews simply change Forms, like some sort of shape-shifting demon, as easily as we breathe.
The problems is, thus, twofold:
One, above all, WE LET THIS HAPPEN TO US, and it is OUR Power, OUR Creativity, that is used against us – that we have allowed to be used against us.
Two, we see the Jews; we miss that more important fact that Jews are nodes through which the destructive, materialistic process of Judaism operates. Intelligent nodes, parasitic nodes, opportunistic nodes, but simply lenses through which the demonic forces of Judaism flow, destroying all they touch by reducing it to mere materialism.
I am as strong an opponent of Institutional Christianity as any among us.
I DO see, in the people who attend Church (during the week!), an attempt to develop a social order that can stand as a bulwark against a collapsing economic and social system.
I DO see, particularly in the home school movement, the crystallization of the realization that the prime socialization tool of the extant social order – the public fool system – is seen as the Nemesis of a proper social ordering.
The Good News for us is THIS:
Sooner or later, all of their issues will be seen, and resolved, in the lens of: Family, as the microcosm of RACE; RACE, as the macrocosm of Family; and RACE as the Living Bridge between Family and Culture.
They will, literally remake Christianity to suit the needs of their Posterity, and the price of this is the lifting of the yoke of demonic Judaism from Christianity.
Oh, Happy Day!
New America
An Idea Whose Time Is HERE!
29 March, 2008 at 6:36 pm
Newe you should consider immigrating to deepest darkest Africa, or the jungles of Latin America where they still have barter societies. But, even there you may end up in a pot, if you don’t pay your bones.
29 March, 2008 at 7:20 pm
Since you seem to think usury is such a wonderful idea, Olde Dutch, I think you should consider moving to Israel where you’d be surrounded by the folks who invented the practice.
29 March, 2008 at 7:38 pm
To New America: You know, Christianity is not all that bad – so long as 100% of the population are Christians and take it very, very seriously. If you have an all-white population, with every last one believing that it is God’s will that they should be all for one, and one for all, I could live with that. The early Christians apparently had this fine attitude.
Trouble is, people get greedy & lazy, and decide that they can’t live by such an ideology in perpetuity. So, to use your words, they try to remake Christianity. But then, it’s not Christianity anymore! It’s judeo-Christianity, whereby it becomes acceptable to want power & wealth and to deceive one’s own kind. And here we are.
29 March, 2008 at 7:46 pm
LOL. The calculation of compound interest originated in Scotland during the early 1600 hundreds.
Btw, you do know we did have state laws against usury, and there are truth in lending laws on the books. Who is not enforcing the law?
29 March, 2008 at 7:59 pm
in reply to Stronza:
you wrote:
in reply:
The Communitarian Ethos seen in early Christianity can be seen today in the Amish.
Again, note that it is a European (GERMAN) White Social Order that makes such a protoChristian social ordering possible; literally Christianity flourished as a spiritual home for the Western Soul, and vice-versa.
That DOES leave the question of the Industrial Revolution, and alternative economic structures, problems that are easily solved by our RACE.
you wrote:
in reply:
A good deal of Hitler’s economic and social miracles came about by containing Judaism, which, by removing the Parasitical Entity, allowed the Light of the Creative RACE to shine through, creating one new social, technological and economic revolution after another.
No need to really DO much of anything with them.
Simply contain them, so their Darkness has no ground to walk upon.
Then, we are freed up to Creatively resolve conflicts, and turn them into opportunities.
New America
An Idea Whose Time Is HERE!
29 March, 2008 at 10:30 pm
The calculation of compound interest originated in Scotland during the early 1600 hundreds [sic].
Apparently, you’ve never read the Old Testament.
The OT tells us where the practice of usury originated and it wasn’t Scotland.
Btw, you do know we did have state laws against usury…
Contemporary anti-usury laws only apply to so-called loan sharks or lenders who charge “excessive” usury.
We need a law that makes ALL usury illegal.
30 March, 2008 at 2:22 am
Olde Dutch,
You do understand the built in fatal flaw inherent to all debt based, interest(usury) based money systems that dooms them to inevitable systemic collapse and implosion, do you not?
30 March, 2008 at 2:29 am
Newe Dutch,
Yes, I agree, all interest(usury) must be eliminated from our monetary system. The reason is because interest(usury) is the one common element of all modern debt based money systems that dooms them to eventual failure and collapse. The reason why is so simple and elementary that most people overlook it.
30 March, 2008 at 2:41 am
Usury exists because $5 today is worth more to most people than $5 tomorrow. Of course it doesn’t stay at $5. We want to “own” a house or car NOW, not after saving for 25 years, do we. So we get mortgage loans. And so, yes, ultimately it is doomed to implode when millions of people are in on the racket of wanting or needing things now.
You have to figure out how something works on the most basic, small-scale level before you can understand what will happen years down the line. I simply can’t imagine a society without usury in one form or another. Party #1 will always be loathe to hand a bunch of money over to Party #2 because deep down he thinks that Party #2 should have to work and wait and save for that thing that he wants. So he tells Party #2 that he can have that $5 today so long as he pays it back with “interest” tomorrow. A way to punish Party #2 for being such an inferior being, you see.
If we all loved each other (heh, heh) we would all be loaning money without interest. Can anyone picture this?
30 March, 2008 at 10:49 am
Newe, you are playing into the jew agenda. The jews want to inflate the currency—low interest rates—to keep the war for their jew homeland popular in the USA. The jews will wreck the US economy to do it. You don’t want to be part of that do you?
All of your carping about usury, has nothing to do with the current situation. You are a day late, and a dollar short. LOL.
Btw, the plural of hundred is hundreds. LOL.
30 March, 2008 at 1:10 pm
Usury is good for pensioners.
30 March, 2008 at 1:16 pm
Pensioners love monetarism. Tossing worker output into the ocean is good for pensioners, bad for workers.
30 March, 2008 at 6:22 pm
Some of you shouldn’t use the word usury unless you know what it means. Usury is usually defined as an excessive interest rate; the most common usury threshold being interest rates of 18% to 21% a year or more.
When we had state usury laws, they for the most part, limited the maximum interest rate that could be charged to 18% to 21% per year.
By the same token, no one will lend you money for free, not even your mother. LOL.
30 March, 2008 at 6:30 pm
How do we decide what is a justified rate of interest, and what is excessive? Isn’t it other people who are deciding that more than 21% is somehow “usurious”? I say, if you are desperate enough to pay a high rate of interest, then you can certainly do so. The solution to high interest rates is for everybody to refuse to borrow money. Of course, no one wants to make that sacrifice, not even one person, never mind an entire population. So we are sitting ducks.
30 March, 2008 at 6:50 pm
in reply to Stronza:
The question of what interest rate is usurious is fascinating, and the NEED for usury – actually, the charging of interest at all – is worthy of discussion.
If you have ten dollars in existence, and you lend them out at interest, so they must pay you back, say, eleven dollars, then they MUST “create” that eleventh dollar – for you to pay the interest with.
Automatically, interest leads to inflation, of one kind or another.
If you will ONLY accept dollars, and no one manufactures that eleventh dollar, you have created a contract that can not be fulfilled.
So, what to do?
You will simply begin repossessing the collateral.
Simple as that.
Either someone manufactures that eleventh dollar – and charges interest for THAT – or you begin asset liquidation.
The way the interest payments are structured also insures the house always wins; your payments go first to interest, and then to principal.
And then, the compounding of interest guarantees the compounding of indebtedness.
If this continues to a certain point, people literally do not transact in money; like the Dark Ages, everything goes back to barter, in a feudal political society.
Now, economists argue that an interest rate in excess of the real growth rate of the economy is usurious, because it ALWAYS transfers assets from the productive sector of the economy, which is inherently organic, in a mechanistic (inorganic) process, to the financial sector of the economy.
There are lots of interesting ways to deal with this issue, but the creation of a digital currency implies the need for a lot more information about the assets and liabilities involved in the use of that currency.
That pretty much mandates the use of Financial XML – a LOT of Financial XML, in time.
In the meantime, the best answer is a system of partnerships (LLPS’s, LLC’s, cooperatives, whatever is needed), where risk management is applied in an organic manner, to the betterment of all.
New America
An Idea Whose Time Is HERE!
30 March, 2008 at 7:02 pm
Olde_Dutch Says: “Some of you shouldn’t use the word usury unless you know what it means. Usury is usually defined as an excessive interest rate; the most common usury threshold being interest rates of 18% to 21% a year or more.
When we had state usury laws, they for the most part, limited the maximum interest rate that could be charged to 18% to 21% per year.
By the same token, no one will lend you money for free, not even your mother. LOL.”
Islamic banking doesn’t charge interest or usury. And the Catholic church used to forbid it. If the government controlled the banks, there would be no need for interest or usury.
30 March, 2008 at 8:09 pm
By the same token, no one will lend you money for free, not even your mother.
Another red herring.
I never said banks should lend money “for free”.
What I have said is that they should lend money without demanding usury from borrowers.
Since privately owned banks are unable to comply with this stipulation, they’ll have to be abolished and replaced with state-owned banks.
No big deal really, because the truth is that the US never should have had a private banking system in the first place.
Any nation that allows privately owned banks to operate within its borders will eventually wind up being ruled by those banks (a la the Fed).
That’s why our economy, and our country in general, is in the toilet.
30 March, 2008 at 9:07 pm
Newe Dutch – I don’t see why a population which has freedom of association (i.e., all whites live in one section of the state, province, country or whatever) could not benefit from the existence of privately owned banks. Some people are always going to be richer than others, and if they are good-hearted and care about their own kind, then why not open a bank and lend money at low interest?
The Fed exists because stupid white people let it happen. If, as you say, any nation allowing the operation of private banks within its border will wind up being ruled by those banks, I’d like to know how you reached that conclusion. I am not saying you are wrong, I just don’t know why the one situation will produce the other. I admit to not being a financial expert.
30 March, 2008 at 11:54 pm
The idea that state-owned anything will be operated for “the public good” is the wheeze of wheezes. No one with any experience with government on any level – from a courthouse to a political campaign – would maintain that belief except as a form of ribald joking. A government, by definition and in reality, is a racket, a conspiracy of parasites against productive people. These are people who only job is to suck the teat of the tax till. As such, it is a weirdo-magnet and drain upon what is left of the human race. Only the lowest shit slobbers after a government job, or worships the alleged do-gooding wonders the aggregate of such jobs works.
The solution to jewism is not communism. Communism IS jewism.
The solution is to get rid of the jews and live in all-White in as libertarian a condition as possible. Dictatorship may be the path to this, but not the destination.
30 March, 2008 at 11:55 pm
The idea that state-owned anything will be operated for “the public good” is the wheeze of wheezes. No one with any experience with government on any level – from a courthouse to a political campaign – would maintain that belief except as a form of ribald joking. A government, by definition and in reality, is a racket, a conspiracy of parasites against productive people. These are people who only job is to suck the teat of the tax till. As such, it is a weirdo-magnet and drain upon what is left of the human race. Only the lowest shit slobbers after a government job, or worships the alleged do-gooding wonders the aggregate of such jobs works.
The solution to jewism is not communism. Communism IS jewism.
The solution is to get rid of the jews and live all-White in as libertarian a condition as possible. Dictatorship may be the path to this, but not the destination.
31 March, 2008 at 12:11 am
I don’t see why a population which has freedom of association…could not benefit from the existence of privately owned banks.
Why would anyone want to borrow money from a privately owned bank that charges “interest” (usury) when they could borrow the same money from a state-owned bank that doesn’t charge “interest”?
That doesn’t make any sense.
Some people are always going to be richer than others…
Allowing lenders to practice usury would guarantee that some people would become much richer than others (without doing any productive work) because usury causes more money to flow into the hands of the usurers than it does the borrowers.
This is not a good thing and we shouldn’t be abetting it by making it legal.
…and if they are good-hearted and care about their own kind…
If they’re genuinely good-hearted, then let them prove it by not practicing usury.
If, as you say, any nation allowing the operaton of private banks within its border will wind up being ruled by those banks, I’d like to know how you reached that conclusion.
I’m using history as my guide.
31 March, 2008 at 12:36 am
The solution is to get rid of the jews and live all-White in as libertarian a condition as possible.
Jew-created libertardianism is the answer to our problems?
OMG! What a load of horseshit!
31 March, 2008 at 12:40 am
in reply to sgruber:
you wrote:
in reply:
The problem is, there will ALWAYS be an ordering of society, and power tends to consolidate fairly quickly.
The libertarian fantasy, seen under Reagan, of removing governmental powers, simply shifted power into the hands of other entities – usually corporations, and financial corporations.
Thus, for instance, the removal of the First Great Depression Era’s Glass-Stegall law allowed the stock brokers access to the assets entrusted to the bankers, which included Federal protection.
Wonder where your pension has gone?
Look at BBB-rated RMBS, and see what is supporting more of your pensions than you might think,
The list goes on.
Oh, by the way, how much of YOUR money is being spent by the Federal Reserve/Treasury Department on nationalizing the losses, and privating the profits, of stock brokerages and banks?
PRIVATE banks…
you wrote:
in reply:
Communism is simply the ideal Jewish government, based, literally, on State Capitalism – ALL Property is owned and controlled by the State, and that includes the “workers.”
you wrote:
in reply:
The solution is to replace Judaism – the state of Mind that is the EXACT opposite of Christianity – with what Christianity SHOULD become, and develop all – ALL – Institutions in our society to serve the White RACE.
The demonic, Goddamn Jews have no more power than that which we have given them.
Simply replace them, and their Culture, and displace them, with OUR RACE, and OUR Culture.
New America
An Idea Whose Time Is HERE!
31 March, 2008 at 6:56 am
Old Dutch: “Some of you shouldn’t use the word usury unless you know what it means.”
This from a guy who links usury’s origins to Scotland, 1600s.
“Usury is usually defined as an excessive interest rate”
Usury was historically defined as the charging of any interest. ‘Excessive interest rate’ is a relatively recent innovation.
“By the same token, no one will lend you money for free, not even your mother. LOL.”
Not your mother, perhaps?
Tossing worker output into the ocean is good for pensioners and other monetarists. Kind of reminds me of the guy who says, “Fuck you, I’ve got mine!”
31 March, 2008 at 7:20 am
Newe Dutch: “Jew-created libertardianism is the answer to our problems?”
From the monetarist perspective, yes it is. The racialism of so-called ‘racialist’ cons and libertoonians is secondary to easy money. Some would say it’s all about money. Not quite right, imo. The ‘easy’ part has greater appeal.
31 March, 2008 at 11:46 am
Hi again, Newe Dutch. You said,
Why would anyone want to borrow money from a privately owned bank that charges “interest” (usury) when they could borrow the same money from a state-owned bank that doesn’t charge “interest”?
That doesn’t make any sense.
Stronza continues:
When the state-owned bank starts up, where will it get the money to make loans in the first place? Should the state-owned bank just ask people to give it a bunch of money for nothing, i.e., make deposits? And it will be “for nothing” because if there is no interest charged to borrowers down the line, there can be no interest paid on deposits. Then we’ll need giant committees and investigators to decide just who might qualify for these free loans…
Would the state tax the general population to build and operate the interest-free banks? But then a certain portion of that taxed population would have no need for a free loan, and would feel resentful. Just as I feel resentful today having to support a motley collection of beggars by other names.
See, my thinking is that things may sound fine in theory, but the devil’s in the details. You know I’m a bit thick, so please help me out, as usual!
31 March, 2008 at 12:54 pm
“The concept of the just price is the basis of a great deal of erroneous economic thought that permeates our supposedly free market, capitalistic society. Laws regarding usury, loan sharking, price gouging, ticket scalping, dumping, profiteering, equal pay, price discrimination, predatory pricing and lending, product bundling, and antitrust — these are all prime examples of this fallacious way of thinking. Opinions expressed on these practices, and things like pay for supermodels, executives, actors, and athletes, as well as nebulous concepts of fairness, are likewise predicated on just price theory — regardless of whether the opinionist has any concept of basic economics or has ever even heard of just price theory. Regulations establishing price ceilings, price floors, a minimum wage, a living wage, a family wage, rent control, government subsidies, price supports, and in many cases tariffs, also result from the pursuit of the just price.
The term just price is customarily disguised with a euphemism. So, just like SCHIP, Medicare, and Medicaid are never called socialized medicine, and just like refundable tax credits are never referred to as income transfer programs, attempts to establish a just price are usually cloaked in terms of market failure remedies or consumer protection laws. The mention of just price theory either invokes a blank stare, or, in the case of those familiar with the term, the dismissal of the notion as a discredited medieval religious doctrine.”
http://www.mises.org:80/story/2918
31 March, 2008 at 1:26 pm
in reply to shabbos s. shabazz:
you wrote:
in reply:
Leave it to the Libertardians to set the straw man up, and knock him down, all the while proclaiming moral supremacy.
The Libertardians, as seen in your example, have their own religion – the “free” market – and their own Deity – market-clearing prices, preferably prices that immediately clear the market, as they do at, say, bankruptcy auctions.
And THOSE are their loves – the wonderful “efficiency” of the market clearing price, while ignoring the social ineffectiveness of driving families – the foundation of a social order – into destitution.
In stock manipulation terms, it’s called “pump ‘em and dump ‘em.”
When the entire productive capacity of an economy has been turned into securities – debt-based instruments – which can be manipulated by skilled market manipulators – looks at the various ratings for the Residential Mortgage Backed Securities, particuarly those of BBB quality, and ask yourself how a “free market” could produce a security that loses EIGHT-FIVE PERCENT of its value in the first year?
And how could someone with a fiduciary relationship accept such investments into, say, a pension fund?
The Invisible God of the Libertardians – literally, the Invisible Hand – requires perfect knowledge on the part of all parties to a transaction, homogeneous goods and readily available substitutes, AND frictionless transactions.
ALL of these preconditions must be in place simultaneously for the model to work, and this simply does not happen in the Real World.
ALL, simultaneously, or the model fails.
A Fair Market – on the lines of the National Socialist model, for example – has a positive role for the government as the creator of countervailing forces that will correct the market failures of the Libertardian model, insuring that the State serves the citizens, the economy serves the State, and the financial sector serves the economy.
Right now, we pretty much have all of that backwards – ALL serves the financial sector of the economy – and we are seeing the horrific consequences of this, and the effect is has on families, which are the foundation of Society, right before our eyes.
It is not a pretty sight.
New America
An Idea Whose Time Is HERE!
31 March, 2008 at 1:54 pm
Olde Dutch and Stronza,
You two do know that banks don’t actually lend money, right? You do know that banks lend credit, yes? You do understand that banks monetize your promissory note and convert it into “money” and then lend you back this money at interest, do you not? You do understand that this “money” is created out of thin air, right?
31 March, 2008 at 1:56 pm
Stronza,
Private commercial banks don’t actually have any money to lend. They create the money out of thin air when they lend it to you. They literally “lend” money into existence. This is where money comes from. Were you aware of that?
31 March, 2008 at 3:39 pm
Hi, ZOG. Oh, yes, I knew that the banks of today & yesteryear created “money” out of thin air when they lend it to you. I learned that on Vanguard, and had not known it before. (It was B. Billy or W. Will, I think who discussed this.)
I had always believed that when people deposit money, most of it was put into a separate place and always kept there, whilst the rest was lent out, and that the bank always kept a close eye to make sure that even if there was a run on the banks, depositers would get all their money returned to them right away. Pretty swift, huh.
In my posts, I was talking about that halcyon day, which Newe Dutch thinks might happen, where “state-owned banks” will exist and lend “money” to citizens. I wanted to know just HOW these state banks could do so, in a sensibly-ordered white society. I like details. I want to have the whole ball o’ wax untangled for me.
The “money” has to start somewhere. Without taxation of unwilling subjects, how will the initial genuine-value “money” present itself to the state and then placed into state-owned banks?
31 March, 2008 at 5:04 pm
When the state-owned bank starts up, where will it get the money to make loans in the first place?
In the aftermath of a bloody revolution, I hardly think it’ll matter.
My assumption is that they’ll use fiat money, at least in the beginning, but that’s not for me to decide.
Then we’ll need giant committees and investigators to decide just who might qualify for these free loans…
“Free” loans?
You’re starting to sound like Olde Dutch.
31 March, 2008 at 6:04 pm
in reply to Stronza:
you wrote:
in reply:
Developing an entire NS economy from scratch is a bit much for us at this time; the basic principles can be outlined, and we can “fill in the blanks” to the benefit of our Posterity – our RACE – as we CREATIVELY develop an economic order worthy of us.
you wrote:
in reply:
I have been spending a lot of time on Bob Whitaker’s National Salvation site http://nationalsalvation.net/ pondering the reformulation of some very fundamental principles, and trying to transcend the Wordism that is used as the functional equivalent of hypnosis to keep us unthinking, and easily manipulated.
If we begin with some basic assumptions, such as:
(1) Money is a terms that describes the most fungible commodity in a society.
(2) Currency is the most material aspect of money, but currency has become digital – and Singapore has pioneered in the use of cell phones as credit cards/ debit cards.
(3) Therefore, the Government can – and will – define “money” and “currency” as it will, but will look to what is accepted, willfully.
(4) The Bank will create – yes, a (hopefully) limited fiat currency, probably pegged to an externally stable value, such as gold, but could also use, for example, market baskets of currencies, or even commodities. If memory serves, Wayne Angell, of the Kansas City Fed, did some useful work on that idea back in the day.
(5) And, the “subjects,” seeing the Old Economic Order collapse around them, will be VERY accepting of the public owned-and-controlled banking system creating the universally accepted “money” to foster the creation of CREATIVE economic relationships. Certainly, incidentally, there will be lots of opportunities for Financial XML to remove so many layers of deadwood from the regulatory agencies!
New America
An Idea Whose Time Is HERE!
31 March, 2008 at 6:34 pm
In the meantime, instead of raging in self-chosen impotence at the control the demonic Goddamned Jews have over the banking and financial systems, let’s continue to address the issues from a Creative perspective, to the point that we are better than they are, at what they do, to US.
One idea:
The American Banking Association has a website, http://www.aba.com/default.htm which offers self-paced instruction on how the banking systems works from a mechanical perspective, as seen by someone who designed and runs the system.
I suspect other such online courses are available, possibly from the Open Course people at MIT, dealing with the financial system in general, and the banking system, in particular.
Remember this:
The hook-nosed Satanists have no more power than that which we have given them.
And WE can take it BACK, day by day, one step at a time.
New America
An Idea Whose Time Is HERE!
31 March, 2008 at 8:22 pm
Stronza,
The United States Government(i.e. the Treasury Department) has the legal Constitutional authority to create an unlimited amount of currency(“money”) out of thin air, DEBT FREE AND INTEREST FREE. As a matter of fact, all national governments have this right. Money creation is a power that rightly belongs only to sovereign national governments, not to private corporations(i.e. commercial banks). Money creation is actually a legal procedure, not a business or commercial procedure. The act of money creation therefore belongs to the realm of law, not business and commerce.
There are two issues involved here. The first issue is whether or not a money supply is debt based/interest based(as our current money supply is) or if a money supply is debt free/interest free.
The second issue is the distinction between public money and private money. Money created by sovereign governments is public money. Money created by private corporations(commercial banks) is private money. Our current money supply is created by private corporations(commercial banks), therefore our current money supply is private.
31 March, 2008 at 10:21 pm
Many thanx for links and information. Hope I can figure this all out.
No, I’m not for “free loans”. I am talking about someone else’s idea that state-owned banks giving free loans is doable one fine day.
31 March, 2008 at 10:54 pm
Note the NORDIC (ie, WHITE, Northern European) model being considered, solely because of its tremedous effectiveness.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2008/03/31/cnfed131.xml
You know the hook-nosed demons known as Jews will make sure THIS WHITE NATIONALIST model is the last one we will know about…
New America
An Idea Whose Time Is HERE!
31 March, 2008 at 11:29 pm
I am talking about someone else’s idea that state-owned banks giving free loans is doable one fine day.
The term “free loan” is an oxymoron.
There’s no such thing as a “free loan” since all loans have to be repaid eventually (with or without usury).
Perhaps you mean a grant or donation.
Grants and donations don’t have to be repaid.
1 April, 2008 at 4:33 pm
in reply to Stronza:
you wrote:
in reply:
Why should the making of loans the sole regime of a “state-owned bank?”
There are all manner of specialized banks dealing with the unqiue markets for certain classes of loans, such as agriculture – Farm Credit – or the Federal Home Loan banking institutions.
The basic principle of making a loan comes from positive economics – a loan must be attached to a means of extinguishing the indebtedness.
Thus, loans that support increased economic productivity support a positive economic function, such as, say, the loans for toll roads, canals, and railroads.
Why should we go to the “state bank” for such financing, when we could use. say, co-operatives as a source of financing, with the financing structured along the lines of risk management, and risk SHARING – with the loan structured such that the mechanistic hand of interest is replaced by the organic model of shared risk, and shared rewards?
Co-operatives – THAT is a step in the right direction.
New America
An Idea Whose Time Is HERE!
1 April, 2008 at 5:00 pm
Well, aren’t credit unions considered cooperatives? Yet they still loan money out at the same rate as everybody else.
Co-op grocery stores/supermarkets are made up of members who’ve paid a $5 mem. fee, but I don’t think they declare dividends the way they used to years ago, as did the credit unions. I can recall receiving dividends from both organizations. Really. If they still do, there in the USA, let me know and I am sorry for disagreeing.
Sgruber, your post on “state owned anything” is both hilarious and oh-so-true. What lovely writing.
1 April, 2008 at 5:54 pm
Sgruber, your post on “state owned anything” is both hilarious and oh-so-true.
Notice how he lumps all governments together, regardless of whether they’re jew-run (like ours) or Aryan-run (like Germany’s under Hitler).
It’s just boilerplate libertardian claptrap.
1 April, 2008 at 6:16 pm
Why should the making of loans [be] the sole regime of a “state-owned bank?”
If the government prints the money, then the government should also be the one who loans it out….usury-free, of course.
There’s no logical reason why the government should print money and then give it to a group of middlemen (private bankers) who turn around and charge “interest” on it.
1 April, 2008 at 6:45 pm
in reply to Stronza:
you wrote:
in reply:
No, and the “rate” does include include clauses that favor the credit union to the extent that the same clauses favor the bank.
There is a larger point to be made in this regard, and I believe I have not made it clearly enough.
See below.
you wrote:
in reply:
They are still here,and they are still alive – and growing.
Google National Cooperative bank, for example, and see examples of the financial sophistication I am referring to.
My example runs much more organically than that.
For instance, the Co-Op Bank would help finance partnerships, with the economic profit divided fairly among the partners.
LLPs, LLC’s, the list goes on of risk-sharing vehicles that avoid the inherently mechanistic nature of “interest,” while allowing a return on the investment that is understood by many people; thus, for instance, the economic sophistication of the community would grow as, say, the ABC Family Trust lent money to the ABC Family Partnership to invest in – be a limited partner in – DEF Farming Enterprises, for example.
No “interest” at all, in the mechanistic, inorganic sense, but a lot of interested people learning about the business of the Enterprises, for example, as they – and their Families – are sharing in the risk, and the rewards.
New America
An Idea Whose Time Is HERE!
1 April, 2008 at 11:31 pm
New Dutch is exactly correct. If the U.S. Treasury Department can create interest bearing bonds out of thin air, then it can just as well create money or currency out of thin air, INTEREST FREE AND DEBT FREE. This seems to be a point that most people miss.
The power of money creation is a right that belongs to sovereign national governments, NOT private corporations(i.e. the commercial banks). The creation and control of a nation’s money supply is far too important a responsibility to be farmed out to (Jew run)private commercial banking cartels like the Federal Reserve System.
There are actually several concurrent issues at play in any discussion of money and monetary systems.
1. fractional reserve banking vs. full reserve banking.
2. debt based/interest based money supply vs. debt free/interest free money supply.
3. fiat money supply vs. commodity backed money supply.
4. private money supply vs. public money supply