I've met plenty of "Persians" in Australia. They are not white and the only discussion I'm interested in is how to remove them from white countries.

LOL

This lady does not look Persian. She is Iranian. I am not discussing these issues from the perspective of dating Iranians or immigration laws. I am discussing these issues from the perspective of anthropology.

Originally Posted by Kamangir42
You know they are not called Farsis. You are confirming the stupid mistakes of foreigners when they talk about Persian this and Persian that.

If in the next 4 generations there are 50% Kords then so be it. But I think Kordish women too are having fewer children. They are included in Turkish and Iranian statistics don't you realise?

When did Persians destroy Kurdish villages like the Turks? I don't believe you that 19 Kords were killed. And if any are you know they are Isreali-sponsored extreme leftist PKK. You want to live in a PKK state friendly to Israel?

Whether they speak Tajik or Sogdian, they are true Iranians and brothers of Persians just like the Kords. Our bond is much deeper than language. It's sad that you don't feel the same.

I am an Iranian nationalist not a Persian nationalist. What are you?

Originally Posted by Kamangir42
Let me first ask you what are Persians called in Iran?

I am glad that your are proud to be a Kurd. I regard the Kurds as Iranian brethren. But I just cannot believe your interpretation. Let us speak with facts.

The simple fact is that Persians have been the dominant ethnic group in Iran since ancient times. Tati (the former language of Azarbayjan and Aran) is related to Persian not Kurdish. Would Babak Khoramdin or Nezami not consider themselves as Persians?

There are not that many Lor in Iran. They surely do not make up more than 2% of the population. Just look at the census data.

http://i-cias.com/e.o/iran_provinces.htm

The Lor speak a language of the Southwestern branch of the Iranian languages but Kurdish is in the Northwestern branch. Lori cannot be a dialect of Kurdish and is more related to Persian. Moreover, they are Shia Muslim unlike the Kurd who are Sunni. I do not see how the Lor are Median. Can you prove this?

Hamedan is not a Kurdish city. I have been there. Kermanshah is on the extremity of the Kurdish populated area in Iran. The Lor and Kurds cannot form 30% of the population. Take a look at the census data again. Kurds live mostly in Kordestan, Kermanshah and Azarbayjan e Gharbi. Kurds and Lor together form around 10% of the population at most.

Khorasani, Dari, Tajik and Tati are all in the Southwestern branch of the Iranian languages and therefore related to Persian more than Kurdish. So please don't say that everyone in northern Iran is Median rather than Persian. That is not true. Gilaki and Mazandarani are in the Northwestern branch, that is true, but they are fast becoming extinct and will in time be almost totally replaced by Persian not Kurdish.

By calling me a Persian chauvinist you sound exactly like the pan-Turk Azaris. Why don't you ally with them against Iran? Pan-Aryanism is anti-Iranian. So don't talk to me about Persian chauvinism. I am an Iranian nationalist not a "white" nationalist like you.

Persian is a synonym for Iranian in the West. Persians are simply Iranians (Persian, Parthians, Scythians and so on) who have discarded their tribal identity and adopted only the Iranian identity. So, strictly, Persians are simply Iranians proper (by that I mean their only identity is Iranian). There are some Iranian groups (Kords, Tajiks, Gilakis, Lors) who are still Iranian but not Iranian proper (or Persian) because they still have a tribal identity. So I don't mean to say that only tribal Persians are true Iranians (I myself am from Tehran and Mashhad so I'm from nowhere near Fars).

If I am being honest, I no longer consider Pashtuns as Iranian and they can go to hell for all I care. This is because they do not think of themselves as Iranian. In fact, they spit on Iran and have forgotten all Iranian customs (Nowrouz etc). Many identify with India more than Iran (although looking at their genetics they have been heavily Indianised like the Parsis). Many Kords hate Iran too sadly but at least they have not forgotten most of their Iranian ways. I have not spoken to Ossetians (or should that be Ironians) but I should imagine they are like the Pashtuns (although I hope they are not). Iran is our country not Afghanistan or Kordestan or Iron. I hope you agree with what I am saying as an Iranian nationalist.

Kords should learn Kordish (I'll leave the dialect up to you ) and Persian together. As I understand it, this is the situation in schools in Kordish areas of Iran today. And Kords should have their own newspapers and TV/radio stations. This does no harm to Iran; in fact, it makes Iran stronger in my opinion.

Iran must have a single official language for practical reasons. This should be Persian because it is the majority language of Iran (soon the Gilaki and Mazandarani will cease to use their own dialects/languages and I think the same will happen with the Lori and Bakhtiari now that most have settled). If Kordish were made an official language then we would also have to make Azari an official language (I would oppose that strongly and I hope you would to). So it would not be feasible to make Kordish an official language. If it were to become an official language (and Azari doesn't) though I would not lose sleep over it (but to be honest I don't see that happening).

Anything that is Kordish is Kordish (not Persian) and Iranian. Likewise, anything that is Persian is Persian and Iranian. Could you tell me what Kordish achievements Persians have stolen?

Languages are classified by their grammatical structure and phonology. Thus, Persian is an Indo-European language and Arabic is a Semitic language. Many languages borrow words from other languages but this does not make them related. So Persian is not 60% Arabic. Still, I think it's essential that Arabic words should be purged from Persian (and I understand that even the current regime is taking some steps to do so). So a pure Persian should be the official language.

Originally Posted by Kamangir42
I never said that Iranians are "white" or wanted to be considered "white" or European (because we quite obviously are not located in Europe). I just want to make clear that Iranians (by this I mean Persians and their brethren) are not Arabs or Turks; nor are they "miscegenated" with Negroids and Mongoloids (I have the genetic studies that prove this if you would like to see them). Persians are the same people that they were thousands of years ago.

Well, I commend your effort to learn about Iran rather than just assume which is what a lot of people do.

I will say that the CIA Factbook has reason to misrepresent the ethnic composition of Iran. They try to downplay the percentage of Persians so that they can make Iran look divided (i.e. a Yugoslavia waiting to happen). So I would imagine Persians make up quite a bit more of the population.

But even if the numbers provided by the CIA are correct you should note the following. The Persians are closely related to the Gilaki and Mazandarani. In fact they are brother Aryans; the only difference is that they speak dialects of Persian. The Kurds are also closely related to Persians but they speak a distinct language (still related to Persian but not a dialect). The Baluchi are also related to the Persians but they may have bred somewhat with Indians. The Lor and Bakhtiari are probably related to Persians too (and speak a similar language). So, on the CIA figures, about 68% of Iranians are descended from Aryans.

The Azaris are actually Persians who adopted the Turkish language. They have mixed a little with Turkish invaders (probably about 10%) unlike the Persians.

The Iranian/Azerituks are not related to Persians.

I have a problem with the people, whether pro or con, describing "Iranians", and by that meaning an inhabitant of the Islamic Republic of Iran, as a "race", White or otherwise. Iran is a multi ethnic nation.

For instance: the largest tribe in Iran are the Persians, who are in fact of the Iranian branch of the Indo-Iranian branch of the Indo-European racial group. But they are just a slim majority of 51%. The next largest tribe are Azeris, who are Turks. A tribe not within the Indo-European racial group. The Azeri comprise nearly one out of four Iranians. Actual A-Rabs are 3% of the population of Iran. They are a Semitic tribe, not within either the Turk or Aryan family.

Since about half of the people in Iran are not Persians, it is a serious error to describe them as a single ethnic group.

Yes. You are very correct. Azeri Turks in Iran are main proponets of this "Iranian Race" theory in order to present themselves as natives of Iran.

See the Policy of Turkification of Iran
http://azeriturks.blogspot.com/

Oslonor, get this through your head, nobody cares about Persians.

Oslonor, get this through your head, nobody cares about Persians.

Sounds strange. You have posted a large number of posts on other threads on VNN about Iranians. Suddenly Iran is not very interesting.

Originally Posted by Kamangir42
Let me first ask you what are Persians called in Iran?

You know they are not called Farsis. You are confirming the stupid mistakes of foreigners when they talk about Persian this and Persian that.

Mr. Kamangir is trying to deny the ethnic group Persians. He is trying to present it as only a language. This is a good way to present Azeri Turks as Persians. As you see the slideshow on Persians, you can see that there is a real ethnic group who are called Persians.

Persian is a synonym for Iranian in the West. Persians are simply Iranians (Persian, Parthians, Scythians and so on) who have discarded their tribal identity and adopted only the Iranian identity. So, strictly, Persians are simply Iranians proper (by that I mean their only identity is Iranian). There are some Iranian groups (Kords, Tajiks, Gilakis, Lors) who are still Iranian but not Iranian proper (or Persian) because they still have a tribal identity. So I don't mean to say that only tribal Persians are true Iranians (I myself am from Tehran and Mashhad so I'm from nowhere near Fars).

Sorry Persian is not the same as Iranian.

Anything that is Kordish is Kordish (not Persian) and Iranian. Likewise, anything that is Persian is Persian and Iranian. Could you tell me what Kordish achievements Persians have stolen?

Kurds are an Iranian people. Kurds are not a Persian people. Iranian and Persian are not the same thing.

I never said that Iranians are "white" or wanted to be considered "white" or European (because we quite obviously are not located in Europe). I just want to make clear that Iranians (by this I mean Persians and their brethren) are not Arabs or Turks; nor are they "miscegenated" with Negroids and Mongoloids (I have the genetic studies that prove this if you would like to see them). Persians are the same people that they were thousands of years ago.

Iranian/Azeriturks actually look very semitic and to western eyes look like arabs and Jews.

I will say that the CIA Factbook has reason to misrepresent the ethnic composition of Iran. They try to downplay the percentage of Persians so that they can make Iran look divided (i.e. a Yugoslavia waiting to happen). So I would imagine Persians make up quite a bit more of the population.

But even if the numbers provided by the CIA are correct you should note the following. The Persians are closely related to the Gilaki and Mazandarani. In fact they are brother Aryans; the only difference is that they speak dialects of Persian. The Kurds are also closely related to Persians but they speak a distinct language (still related to Persian but not a dialect). The Baluchi are also related to the Persians but they may have bred somewhat with Indians. The Lor and Bakhtiari are probably related to Persians too (and speak a similar language). So, on the CIA figures, about 68% of Iranians are descended from Aryans.

These ethnic groups are distinct ethnic groups. Mr. Kammangir is trying to mix them up into one ethnic group. CIA estimates are not correct. Iranian/Azeriturks are %35-%45 of the population. The reason is many Azeriturks state they are Persians when asked about their ethnicity.

The Azaris are actually Persians who adopted the Turkish language. They have mixed a little with Turkish invaders (probably about 10%) unlike the Persians.

So Azeris are Persians who are mixed with Turks. Brilliant explanation. Not Even The whitest and blond hair and blue eyes Azeris look Persian. The Iranian/Azeriturks are simply a different ethnic group.

Sounds strange. You have posted a large number of posts on other threads on VNN about Iranians. Suddenly Iran is not very interesting.

Yeah, and as we say in the US, "Been there, done that". The day they created "Iran" you were doomed to a zoggy multicult future and you and Shapur just might as well get used to it.

British - means anybody who lives in Great Britain, though they be a nigger from nigeria.
American - means anyone who lives in America, though they just got here yesterday and don't speak English.
Iranian - means anyone who lives in Iran.

This is the way of ZOG and nobody escapes their designated label, except by claiming some "origin" or other. Except for jews, of course, they are allowed to switch back and forth between as many identities as they please.

Yeah, and as we say in the US, "Been there, done that". The day they created "Iran" you were doomed to a zoggy multicult future and you and Shapur just might as well get used to it.

British - means anybody who lives in Great Britain, though they be a nigger from nigeria.
American - means anyone who lives in America, though they just got here yesterday and don't speak English.
Iranian - means anyone who lives in Iran.

This is the way of ZOG and nobody escapes their designated label, except by claiming some "origin" or other. Except for jews, of course, they are allowed to switch back and forth between as many identities as they please.

Your point is not very clear. There are white Americans and there are black Americans. American in itself does not say what ethnicity you are refering to. Same as Iran. Iranian itself does not specify ethnicity. There are Azeriturks and there are Persians. I appreciate if you explain what you mean. I personally do not know Shapur and also do not know really what his views are. But from what I have read his post his views are generally opposed to my views. He is mostly involved in Kurdish questions. I work with Afghan questions and have my own Afghan forum.

Due to the large number of Azeriturks in Iran, Iranian has become synonomous with Azeriturks and generally refers to the phenotypes of Azeriturks.

Your point is not very clear. There are white Americans and there are black Americans. American in itself does not say what ethnicity you are refering to. Same as Iran. Iranian itself does not specify ethnicity. There are Azeriturks and there are Persians. I appreciate if you explain what you mean. I personally do not know Shapur and also do not know really what his views are. But from what I have read his post his views are generally opposed to my views. He is mostly involved in Kurdish questions. I work with Afghan questions and have my own Afghan forum.

Due to the large number of Azeriturks in Iran, Iranian has become synonomous with Azeriturks and generally refers to the phenotypes of Azeriturks.

You know what? There are three races. White, black, and yellow. All browns are going to have to go in mixed race, or mud. Doesn't really matter about them. If they can pass as white, good for them, but I doubt too many can, since they are going to look suspiciously dark.

You know what? There are three races. White, black, and yellow. All browns are going to have to go in mixed race, or mud. Doesn't really matter about them. If they can pass as white, good for them, but I doubt too many can, since they are going to look suspiciously dark.

Your theories about anthropology should be studied by anthropologist. Maybe your theories could be adopted by them. Specially the part about the muds is very interesting. But I do not talk about white or black or brown. Who cares about you approving Persians as whites? Are you planning to date them!!!???? I am talking about the aryan migration theory. In that theory Swedes and Norwegians are more related to Persians than to Anglo-Saxon Diane Sawyer. I leave the concept of white to you as I am not claiming Persians to be "white". Also you insist to stick to identifying Azeris Turks as "Persians" despite massive tevidence to the contrary both from Afghanistan and Iran. So I can see you are not following any scientific reasoning. Your statements are more of political nature.

http://www.ostomaan.org/200505/Reza_Barahani.htm

Rather clear article from a Turk who considers Turks the white Iranians, even though their language is Asian.

Oslonor, you should make friends with this guy and work it out with him!

These Turks seem to be a pain in the ass group, who expect everyone to admire them for being obnoxious, very like the Jews in America.

I'm not too keen on the idea of Mediterraneans as full-on whites, never mind that bunch of brown-skinned, big-nosed, curly-haired, weak-chinned, Allah-worshipping, Arab-resembling, bargain-getting, Middle-earth scum known as Iranians, Turks and the like.

All their whining would be cured by a gigantic neutron bomb, large enough to wipe out all life forms in the whole Middle East, from India in the East to Turkey in the West. If this were to happen I can just imagine the celebrations in Europe, like the old footage of VE day celebrations, where everyone is smiling and dancing, and there's a big band playing "Happy Days are Here Again".

http://www.ostomaan.org/200505/Reza_Barahani.htm

Rather clear article from a Turk who considers Turks the white Iranians, even though their language is Asian.

Oslonor, you should make friends with this guy and work it out with him!

These Turks seem to be a pain in the ass group, who expect everyone to admire them for being obnoxious, very like the Jews in America.

I actually read the article and it was very good. It confirms everything that I am saying. I think the author has very good intentions but we are past that stage. The situation in Iran is very similar to conditions existing in 1722 where AzeriTurks who were ruling Iran were removed by a combined force of Persians and Afghans in Isfahan in 1722 after a six months siege. We propose an Afghan Empire where Azeri power can be removed from Iran. The fundamental problem is Azeri culture is from Caucasus and even if there are few Azeris who have Persian culture, the majority do not have Persian culture. Persians and the natives of Persia have a central asian culture which is fundamentaly different from Azeri culture. That is root of the problem. So no democracy is possible in Iran as long as Azeri participate in the political power.

The Rise of Afghan Empire
http://afghanempire.blogspot.com

I'm not too keen on the idea of Mediterraneans as full-on whites, never mind that bunch of brown-skinned, big-nosed, curly-haired, weak-chinned, Allah-worshipping, Arab-resembling, bargain-getting, Middle-earth scum known as Iranians, Turks and the like.

All their whining would be cured by a gigantic neutron bomb, large enough to wipe out all life forms in the whole Middle East, from India in the East to Turkey in the West. If this were to happen I can just imagine the celebrations in Europe, like the old footage of VE day celebrations, where everyone is smiling and dancing, and there's a big band playing "Happy Days are Here Again".

Actually you point out a very good problem common among white nationalist. Instead of blaming European governments for their immigration policies, you are blaming some "brown skin" immigrants looking for jobs. I think you should direct the blame to those who are responsible.

Secondly all this terminology about Meds, and Caucasians etc are non-sense invented by Jews. You should read my blog on "Irano-Afghan race" fraud.

"Irano-Afghan Race" Fraud

Confusing and distorting the concept of racial identity is a favourite method to deny the existence of ethnic identities and control nationalities. They heavily rely on the pseudo concept of Caucausian and Mediternaean where everyone is identical. They conclude that "Iranian race" is caucausian and mediternean therefore it has a hooked nose.
Mediteranean puts together whites and white looking non-whites as a mediteranean race. Both Arabs and Gypsies are members of mediterranean race. This is despite Iran is not even located near the mediteranean sea. Arabs and Azeris and Persians and Swedes are caucasians. So this concept can not describe anything useful about any race.

Also look at the genetic chart below. They classify Iranian with Turks and Lebanonese. Iranians are far away from Kurds, Caspian (Gilaki, Mazandarani) and Iraqis (there are many Persians in Iraq in addition to Kurds). It is a very strange chart. There is no Iranian race. What they mean by Iranian is an Azeri Turks. Only on that case the chart is correct. That is if all Iranians are Azeri-Turk.This chart is actually a future chart for Iran where they identify allIranians as Azeriturks . For Persians then the chart should show that Iranians cluster with British and Danish and Italians as it does here.

http://persianshollywood.blogspot.com/