Not by the jews but by us. His crime? He posted interracial porn on his site. Not 10 times, not 5 times but once. Posted a disgusting series of pics that offended us all. Did it to illustrate a point and man did it ever. What it did more than anything else is illuminate who his friends were and weren't.

I have always admired Alex's writing and work. Furthermore VNN is Alex's site and he can do whatever he wants. But he should have realized by sometime yesterday, when the poll was raging - if not much earlier - there exist certain boundaries or standards strongly held by the majority of WNs that shouldn't be crossed lightly - not if the good will and participation of the said majority is to be maintained. To cross these boundaries suddenly and without warning after several years of a certain implicit pattern was bound to offend a lot of people.

You point out that he has done this only once. True enough, but who knows what happens tomorrow? What is the editorial policy these days? Anything goes so long as it garners page hits? That's certainly different from what it was for the last several years. In good conscience I for one cannot give out to the general public (potentially including all ages and both sexes) a link of a web site that randomly and intermittently is going to attempt to administer enlightment-through-shock therapy on unsuspecting readers.

The question I have is why this change? What, being hands down the best satirist and commentator in the WN "movement" is not good enough for Alex? What, he has to take on the role of a "WN Fred Phelps" too? Fred Phelps makes a strong point when he and his circle of nuts picket and protest the funerals of Iraqi war KIAs. Sure, that will definitely get you publicity, but is that the sort of publicity you want? Until I see some good evidence of a benefit, I will continue to err on the side of decency.

Again, it's Alex's site. Maybe he is right about his recently adopted tactics and the 75% opposed are wrong. I do sincerely wish him the best.

My 2 c.

(BTW I also would like to retract my "sycophant" remark against AE - sorry you got caught in that wide brush. Why don't you allow PMs anyway?)

Infighting is in the movement's blood.
BTW, I saw a picture of Vladika Michael here not long ago.
Now THAT made me puke!

With the banning of Will, VNN cuts every last tie to NA and its spinoffs. We will work only with those I know personally and trust. We will undertake no new projects unless they are sustainable and achieve specific goals. I urge those of you with talent to step forward and explain how we can work together to advance the cause.

There is no movement in any real sense. There is a growing body of people awakened to the jew. It remains a theory that this body could be organized. Nobody's been able to pull it off on any scale. Do we have any organizers out there? Do we have anyone who can see what we need to do to build a successful organization? Should VNN even worry about creating a political organization? These are things worth discussing.

WN failure is due to external constraints far more than inherent problems with people, tactics or behavior. The principal constraint is the demonization in the judenpresse of anyone defending Whites. This is backed up back with overt legal discrimination, infiltration, and behind-the-scenes harassment that no one merely looking in can fully appreciate.

We should keep our act clean for our own reasons, not because it will decide the outcome in our fight with the jews. Bad as WN may seem, it is less corrupt than so-called mainstream politics. Our "problem" is not us, it is our being oppressed by people with the "ultimate set of tools," as Spicoli said.

The difference between White nationalists and paleoconservatives and whatever small success they enjoy on the margins of the 'mainstream' is that the pale ones are allowed to develop freely because they represent no threat to the jews. They paleoconservatives are the people afraid to fight back - paleoconservatism is the coward's natural home. In fact, pales provide cover for the jews by keeping the middle class cowed in fear of losing its respectability when it ought to be worried about losing its future. Thanks to our efforts, more and more people understand that simple truth. The more of them shuck the Chronic complainers and join us, the faster we will grow. As year succeeds year, it becomes clear to increasing numbers of whites that they have nothing to lose by transforming into Whites - proud, competent, clear-eyed White men who defend themselves openly, explicitly, and unashamedly.

I am not against print publications. Like I said, I'm willing to produce TAA twice a year. But I'm not the only editor in town, and there are experts in layout far abler than I. Where are these people? Step forward and help, or go at my pace.

After Will's words last night, I cut all ties with him. He is banned here and no one on my team will extend him any help. It comes down to trust, and once that's gone, it doesn't come back. Since Will is always right, it is natural that he form his own group and lead from the front. But I think he'll continue to kibitz from the rear like he always has. He'll play it as though he's nobly declining high office, but he simply doesn't want the responsibility. He wants to bitch. He's good at it, he likes it.

Will and his malicious fractiousness are now eliminated from VNN. "Ker-plop," as Mr. Williams likes to say.

I emphasize: new people step forward. As quickly as you do, VNN can do new things. In recent months we've had people step forward and create a radio facility. One listener heard my call and created an ISP - the only one in the world that truly supports free speech. The creation of Cable Bay is an unparalleled achievement. Its importance cannot be overemphasized. WN gets its power from the immediate global distribution the Internet affords. Nothing can match it. Our first focus must be on exploiting it fully. We never have. But we are doing better than ever. We will continue to grow VNN and advance the cause by allying only with men of technical competence and proven loyalty.

I will be taking a larger role here at VNNF than I've played in the past, and there may be some changes in tone and direction. As always you will be free to speak your mind and make your case, but we'll have less tolerance for 99s and fetishists of any flavor.

Political activism and entertainment have at least one thing in common: Throw lots of shit up on the wall and see what sticks. The porny jpeg didn't stick. So? Linder will try other things.

The pic was not the problem, the problem is lots of WNs ain't going to let it die. I say it's dead already. Move onto the next thing.

PS: When Tsun was doing this sort of thing it DID work. No hardcore, just scantily-clad white babes saying things like "Back off, TYRONE -- I only date white men!" and stuff like that. People were offended even so. Nothing you can do will please the Nervous Nellies and Alex don't try. Probably the right strategy.

What this whole affair did was show that a substantial portion of WN, even here at atheist-flavored VNN, has the mindset of a Southern Baptist.

That won't cut it. That will just lead to more of the same failures. We must break out, and we do that by stuyding the problem and the ways men have coped with the problem successfully in the past. We adopt their teachings and findings to current conditions.

We must aim at the young, and that means radio and video. We must go for emotions, and lose the eternal rightist obsession with documentation which, after all, was in place 100 years ago.

We must be more provocative, not less. We must be more daring, more obnoxious, rougher and cruder than ever. Johnny-Knoxville-style extreme politics can work. Turn the jews tools and memes against him. Graphics using ubiquitous porn imagery is one way to do that.

I don’t like the porn, as a matter of fact I hate it.

But, I now understand Alex’s concept.

I was ready to pack this board in, until I spoke to my two sons about this controversy, they are in their 20s and very smart and jew-wise.

Alex is right! We must relate to the younger White men coming up. It will be those younger men who will be the real White army and future warriors who will deliver us from the jew. The older men have historically been the officers guiding from afar with wisdom and experience.

This utilizing of porn that revolts us older men is not perceived in the same way and manner as it is to those younger then us. We can still maintain our noble decorum as elder respectable White men and at the same time use the language that the younger men will understand. Aren’t we intelligent enough to communicate that distinction? I don’t care what a jew thinks of me, I care about what my sons think of me!

I’m sorry ladies if this upsets your sensibilities, but this is not your fight. War is ugly and mean and revolting and we have to do what we have to do. Do you have it in you to slit the throat of a jew and have yourself covered in his blood? Could you run a car tire over a jew’s head and watch his brains squirt out of his eye sockets? Could you blow-up a synagogue knowing that there are women and children in there? I believe that our younger men are angry enough to do these things and more because they are beginning to realize just how much the jew has stolen from them. The main complaint is that the jew has taken their women away from them and given them to the niggers and they are enraged. The porno graphically illustrates this. We will stoke that rage.

Many times it is our own inherent inflexibility to accept new ideas that the jew has effectively used against us. I know about inflexibility, being mostly of German ancestry. But that in no way, should that make us unable to understand that we must adapt in order to fight the most wicked enemy. The jew uses his old bag of tricks because they work. Our race has been fighting the jew for a long time and look at where we are. It is time to tap into our youth who have already been tainted by the jew’s filth and show them that filth-burden that they carry in their hearts is from the jew. That, in turn, will focus their rage and hatred for the jew because then they will understand where the pain is coming from. All we have to do is point out how the jew has soiled them. They will want to kill the jew. And that is the goal.

What this whole affair did was show that a substantial portion of WN, even here at atheist-flavored VNN, has the mindset of a Southern Baptist.

I agree! Even those "revolutionaries" who supposedly oppose Christinsanity are just a bunch of, as you said, Southern Baptists, when it comes to a lot of issues. Give me a break!

VNN, goyfire, etc etc is kick ass.

What this whole affair did was show that a substantial portion of WN, even here at atheist-flavored VNN, has the mindset of a Southern Baptist.

That won't cut it. That will just lead to more of the same failures. We must break out, and we do that by stuyding the problem and the ways men have coped with the problem successfully in the past. We adopt their teachings and findings to current conditions.

We must aim at the young, and that means radio and video. We must go for emotions, and lose the eternal rightist obsession with documentation which, after all, was in place 100 years ago.

We must be more provocative, not less. We must be more daring, more obnoxious, rougher and cruder than ever. Johnny-Knoxville-style extreme politics can work. Turn the jews tools and memes against him. Graphics using ubiquitous porn imagery is one way to do that.

I think anyone who agreed with Alex's tactics, ie, the in-your-face style designed to wake people up, but who balked at the porn, while also claiming to be skeptical, non-moralistic atheists, were indeed little better than Southern Baptists when push came to shove. Apparently one can push all buttons, break all rules of "polite discourse", except for the porn thing. Also in some cases I suspect it is more than a little hypocritical: I doubt there are many white men under 40 who haven't seen this type of porn, or worse, in their lives, so it's not like they are seeing something new. I understand not wanting to see it on VNN; it's not "nice". But I also understand Alex's point in showing it.

Having said that, however, the fact remains that Alex's approach is not the only valid approach and we need to address our message to all segments of the White community, even segments that we don't like, such as liberal dogooders, hippy-esque granola types, libertarians, conservatives, Xtians of various types, and yes, even the Mrs. Grundy types. White nationalism can't be reduced to a single, narrow vision of what is right on everything and on all questions; even the National Socialists were divided into many and various opposed and incompatible factions and "types" who disagreed on many issues.

Obviously VNN was never intended to be addressed towards Mrs. Grundy.

But if VNN doesn't serve that purpose, someone else must. And on the whole, the so-called WN "movement" is already heavily biased towards the overly conservative Mrs. Grundy types anyway, so in fact VNN is broadening the WN field a bit, and that, IMO, is a good thing. However, VNN can't be the entire movement, no matter how well it might do in future. We will always have differing segments of the White population that will have to be addressed in terms that they can understand and deal with, and VNN is not going to be able to fulfill that role for all whites. No one message or approach is going to work for everyone.

First of all I would like to thank Alex for giving a place of free speach where naming the Kike is not taboo and for not banning someone because of a stupid name like this one because it might offend some poor ol' innocent jew. This site and Hal Turners sites are the only places this name can be used. Isn't that funny how that works ? Alex and Hal have two of the best web sites on the internet for white nationalist. I think it has to do with their trials and errors witch they do in a big way. The biggest achievements happen through the biggest trial and error situations.

What has really happened in the white nationalism movement in the last 10 to5 years not much. Sure a few folks have waken up to what is going on around them and most of those people are affraid of their own shadow and are scared to make any waves because it might not be good for their social settings. Like over at stormfront their members list says they have 95 thousand members. How many of those people do you think anounces their white pride out in public? I would say about 100 at the most that is stating their view in their every day lives. Imagine if everyone of those folks showed their pride in everyday life that would shake a lot of people awake and realise that they do not have to be ashamed to be white.

There is way too much infighting going on to accomplish much. We should stand togeather as one when ever there is a rally going on and put our difference aside for these events. That is what our enimies do. I fill that Hal and Alex ought to get togeather and work on some radio projects togeather.

Already many excellent points made on this thread.

Did anybody think for a single moment that the graphic accompanying the article was meant to TITILLATE? It was a dramatic, modern-day version of Julius Streicher, if JS had the technology available today THIS is the sort of stuff he would be doing. The graphic brought home in an UNDENIABLE manner exactly what the jew has been doing.
Truth hurts, I realize that but if a person can't see what AL is doing then they better go off and do another approach rather than lambast the man who has created innovative in-your-face style of propaganda.

Morally AL is head and shoulders above most of the so-called WN leadership, let's leave it at that.

ILLEGAL ALIENS, as reported in an article in the JUST IN section, have unions fighting for them, have government looking into the matter for them after they were fired for not reporting to work in Seattle area so they could illegally march and tie up traffic. This is how far gone America is and people want to cast STONES at the MAN who has a VISION.

If your house is being invaded by scum you don't stop to put on a tux before grabbing your 9mm, get it? There is NO TIME to play the Jared Taylor game, none.

With the banning of Will, VNN cuts every last tie to NA and its spinoffs. We will work only with those I know personally and trust. We will undertake no new projects unless they are sustainable and achieve specific goals. I urge those of you with talent to step forward and explain how we can work together to advance the cause.

There is no movement in any real sense. There is a growing body of people awakened to the jew. It remains a theory that this body could be organized. Nobody's been able to pull it off on any scale. Do we have any organizers out there? Do we have anyone who can see what we need to do to build a successful organization? Should VNN even worry about creating a political organization? These are things worth discussing.

WN failure is due to external constraints far more than inherent problems with people, tactics or behavior. The principal constraint is the demonization in the judenpresse of anyone defending Whites. This is backed up back with overt legal discrimination, infiltration, and behind-the-scenes harassment that no one merely looking in can fully appreciate.

We should keep our act clean for our own reasons, not because it will decide the outcome in our fight with the jews. Bad as WN may seem, it is less corrupt than so-called mainstream politics. Our "problem" is not us, it is our being oppressed by people with the "ultimate set of tools," as Spicoli said.

The difference between White nationalists and paleoconservatives and whatever small success they enjoy on the margins of the 'mainstream' is that the pale ones are allowed to develop freely because they represent no threat to the jews. They paleoconservatives are the people afraid to fight back - paleoconservatism is the coward's natural home. In fact, pales provide cover for the jews by keeping the middle class cowed in fear of losing its respectability when it ought to be worried about losing its future. Thanks to our efforts, more and more people understand that simple truth. The more of them shuck the Chronic complainers and join us, the faster we will grow. As year succeeds year, it becomes clear to increasing numbers of whites that they have nothing to lose by transforming into Whites - proud, competent, clear-eyed White men who defend themselves openly, explicitly, and unashamedly.

I am not against print publications. Like I said, I'm willing to produce TAA twice a year. But I'm not the only editor in town, and there are experts in layout far abler than I. Where are these people? Step forward and help, or go at my pace.

After Will's words last night, I cut all ties with him. He is banned here and no one on my team will extend him any help. It comes down to trust, and once that's gone, it doesn't come back. Since Will is always right, it is natural that he form his own group and lead from the front. But I think he'll continue to kibitz from the rear like he always has. He'll play it as though he's nobly declining high office, but he simply doesn't want the responsibility. He wants to bitch. He's good at it, he likes it.

Will and his malicious fractiousness are now eliminated from VNN. "Ker-plop," as Mr. Williams likes to say.

I emphasize: new people step forward. As quickly as you do, VNN can do new things. In recent months we've had people step forward and create a radio facility. One listener heard my call and created an ISP - the only one in the world that truly supports free speech. The creation of Cable Bay is an unparalleled achievement. Its importance cannot be overemphasized. WN gets its power from the immediate global distribution the Internet affords. Nothing can match it. Our first focus must be on exploiting it fully. We never have. But we are doing better than ever. We will continue to grow VNN and advance the cause by allying only with men of technical competence and proven loyalty.

I will be taking a larger role here at VNNF than I've played in the past, and there may be some changes in tone and direction. As always you will be free to speak your mind and make your case, but we'll have less tolerance for 99s and fetishists of any flavor.

I tend to agree that the externalities are what is inhibiting WN growth at this point in time, more so than a failure of people, tactics or behavior, although that isn't to say those things have no negative effects of their own either. But essentially it is as you've said before, advancing WNism is like raising a barn in a hurricane.

Which is why it may not be feasible to do it in the Kwa any longer given the very serious external constraints. That's certainly worth consideration as well.

It's ashame that this pic controversy has degenerated into such infighting, and apparently with one significant VNN poster banned and others announcing a break with the site. Frankly, the pics should not have generated that level of disgust, would I have personally used them, I don't think so, but it wasn't my call to make anyway.

What's interesting in this whole mess is that a few weeks ago there was a piece on the main page that essentially was an incoherent rambling about skullfucking and cumming on jews. Not a pic to be found, and not much controversy erupted over that very pornographic piece, which btw I objected to because it was incoherent AND offensive at the same time. Vulgarity for the sake of vulgarity is not my cup of tea, and more importantly it accomplishes nothing.

However I don't think the same can be said of the pics, the message there was quite clear, and it certainly wasn't the promotion of jewish pornography. So, were the images offensive, apparently for many they were, but it wasn't vulgarity for the sake of vulgarity, it did have a point to make. Yet those pics have ignited an internal civil war.

If nothing else it shows the power of images over the written word, and perhaps Alex is onto something after all.

Hopefully this controversy can be laid to rest, and VNN and VNNF can move on and continue doing what it does best.

AL said:

We must go for emotions, and lose the eternal rightist obsession with documentation which, after all, was in place 100 years ago.

There it is. While we all have been documenting, citing this, footnoting that, the lemmings eyes glaze over. What does the jew use? Does he document ANYTHING? He uses emotion and he works incessantly on the young.
This strategy by AL is both OLD and INNOVATIVE at the same time.
This is the approach that will be DIFFERENT.

It is good that we archive here documentation but to get the attention of the future street warriors Alex' style is the most likely to catch on.

Alex and Byron Calvert, more than any others, get it.

This worldwideweb with all its potential, it boggles the mind, radio, video, instant acess to anything. Electronic wonderland. No wonder the jew works to regulate it so furiously.

We must NEVER let the Jew dictate to us .. We MUST dictate to the Jew !

When depravity is the norm, only a "shock therapy" will jolt the folks back to they're senses .