I believe NSM is alright because if SHTF, the units automatically convert into militias.

HA, HA, HA! And what do they know how to do besides march and do interviews? I'd rather team up with some hunter/survivalist types who know how to survive in the wild. These bozos don't have any military training. Erich, no offense, but THAT is something you didn't put much thought into. I am having fun imagining these guys in a combat or survival situation. Whatta Larf!!!

I see the NSM as an organization that has picked-up the fallen torch of the Storm Troopers of George Lincoln Rockwell's Nazi Party. There is a very valid reason why they wear the uniform and I believe that most critics are simply unaware of that reason. Once the reason is clarified, I believe that more WN’s would be supportive of the NSM's efforts.

Also keep in mind, that even Dr. Pierce’s NA was mocked and scoffed in it’s formative years and to compare the two organizations at different times in their development is disingenuous.

VonBluvens supplied a piece called, “Lone Wolfism” and in this audio essay he gives the importance of the uniform according to G. L. Rockwell. It is compelling. Before we hear anymore criticism, please listen to this in it's entirety. Thank you.

http://www.nsm88radio.com/022606.wma

I admire NSM for their dedication, and their hearts, I just whole-heartly agree
that they are just counter - productive. National Socialism is a liberal by-product and will change with people and time, new methods must arise. I believe the NA/NV strategy is more successful but in terms of success besides rallies none has shown. we are without an aryan homeland.

"liberal byproduct"?! While the NA/NV are hard right, I suppose? Faulty analysis.
Silence and obscurity will not attract support. Don't like the NSM's uniform? When was the last time you got in front of the jews cameras claiming a White heritage? Have to get the claim in front of the public. They have been the most successful at that.
You can wait for that illusory groundswell of positive public perception, don't hold your breath, or you can back the best bet going. Don't agree 100%? Then your support will be keeping your lip zipped. While working your own angle.
We're White Men. We are all a little aggressive. Stubborn. This is exactly why National Socialism will work best. It provides a framework whereby we can all feel we are contributing to the forward motion of the group. Lots of individual headstrong men, with steadfast notions will otherwise result in our demise. Remember the bit about hanging together, or we'll all hang seperately?

I do think that the NSM could stop posting here altogether, and they would be just fine! Although Von Bluvens posts here, most NSM members do not have a high opinion of VNN. Please do not assume the NSM needs VNN, the NSM certainly knows that VNN does not need them. ! Von posts here because there are people here who support the NSM, period!

Well, why post announcements, like this thread, when if there are people here who support the NSM wouldn't they already know about this radio show by checking with the NSM website directly???

Didn't VonBluvens vow he would never post here again some time ago, that lasted all of what one day.

Alex Linder should take a page from SF with regards the NSM. Stormfront is crystal clear, they don't care for Linder and VNN, and they enforce that dislike by censoring VNN from their turf in cyberspace. So, I think it's safe to say that noone will confuse SF/Black/Duke/Kelso with VNN, Linder and TAA. There are good people on both sides of the fence, but I identify with VNN's No Jews, Just Right and NOT the SF pussies and whatever it is they represent today. So, by tolerating the NSM ass clowns on this forum I ask, is Linder and VNN tacitly endorsing that bunch of mental defectives??? Ban them from the board, and let's see if they sink or swim in cyberspace, and more importantly the real world. Make it clear that VNN is not to be confused with NSM for the benefit of potentially serious lurkers that might be quality racialist recruits.

If what the NSM is doing is the way to go, they'll prove it and grow to eclipse VNN, and those of us who regard them as useful idiots for the jew will have been proven wrong.

Well, why post announcements, like this thread, when if there are people here who support the NSM wouldn't they already know about this radio show by checking with the NSM website directly???

Didn't VonBluvens vow he would never post here again some time ago, that lasted all of what one day.

Alex Linder should take a page from SF with regards the NSM. Stormfront is crystal clear, they don't care for Linder and VNN, and they enforce that dislike by censoring VNN from their turf in cyberspace. So, I think it's safe to say that noone will confuse SF/Black/Duke/Kelso with VNN, Linder and TAA. There are good people on both sides of the fence, but I identify with VNN's No Jews, Just Right and NOT the SF pussies and whatever it is they represent today. So, by tolerating the NSM ass clowns on this forum I ask, is Linder and VNN tacitly endorsing that bunch of mental defectives??? Ban them from the board, and let's see if they sink or swim in cyberspace, and more importantly the real world. Make it clear that VNN is not to be confused with NSM for the benefit of potentially serious lurkers that might be quality racialist recruits.

If what the NSM is doing is the way to go, they'll prove it and grow to eclipse VNN, and those of us who regard them as useful idiots for the jew will have been proven wrong.

You bring up a valid point. I am not defending Von Bluvens posting here, I am just explaining his motivation for doing so. Personally, I do not think it is necessary for the reasons you have stated.

.........
Or is VNN content to harbor the NSM and be loosely associated with them? And lurkers would be fair to conclude that given the free reign the NSM has on this forum.

There's no association here. There's no association between VNN and any organization. VNN is a name owned by Alex Linder, this and the other web pages are owned by him. We are his guests.

What associations users make on their own, that's totally out of his control.

Linder's criticized the NSM. I've criticized them. Other people are free to criticize them too. As folks know, many senior VNNers met through the "old NA" prior to the firing/ouster of Dr Bob, Fred, Kitty from the board. I think the old NA filled an important role that remains unfulfilled and none of these umbrella group orgs like NSM or WR or Natl Vanguard- none are filling it. VNNforum is not a group so it cant fill it either nor does it seek to.

VNNforum is a great place for people to talk. Here we can plan some activisms and you can meet like minded poeple. It's up to you the user to exercise caution and steer clear of "crazies" and other bad eggs, such as they may be, and make your time useful.

Personally, I think it's ridiculous and counterproductive and flat out disrespectful for the NSM to parade around in these NS uniforms. But, you have to give them credit for publically standing up and announcing their White solidarity against the aliens and Jews. If people think NSM is inept, then get another thing together to show how to do better.

.. Didn't VonBluvens vow he would never post here again some time ago, that lasted all of what one day. .

Well ha, that is funny isnt it.

..
Alex Linder should take a page from SF with regards the NSM. Stormfront is crystal clear, they don't care for Linder and VNN, and they enforce that dislike by censoring VNN from their turf in cyberspace. So, I think it's safe to say that noone will confuse SF/Black/Duke/Kelso with VNN, Linder and TAA. There are good people on both sides of the fence, but I identify with VNN's No Jews, Just Right and NOT the SF pussies and whatever it is they represent today. ...

Well that idea has been proposed to Alex many times and he specifically rejects the notion that VNNforum ban dissenters like SF. I can't say I've always agreed that it was a good idea, but it's our role as mods at this forum which is his property to execute his instructions best way we can.

..So, by tolerating the NSM ass clowns on this forum I ask, is Linder and VNN tacitly endorsing that bunch of mental defectives??? Ban them from the board, and let's see if they sink or swim in cyberspace, and more importantly the real world. Make it clear that VNN is not to be confused with NSM for the benefit of potentially serious lurkers that might be quality racialist recruits...

There's no association here. There's no association between VNN and any organization. VNN is a name owned by Alex Linder, this and the other web pages are owned by him. We are his guests.

What associations users make on their own, that's totally out of his control.

Linder's criticized the NSM. I've criticized them. Other people are free to criticize them too. As folks know, many senior VNNers met through the "old NA" prior to the firing/ouster of Dr Bob, Fred, Kitty from the board. I think the old NA filled an important role that remains unfulfilled and none of these umbrella group orgs like NSM or WR or Natl Vanguard- none are filling it. VNNforum is not a group so it cant fill it either nor does it seek to.

VNNforum is a great place for people to talk. Here we can plan some activisms and you can meet like minded poeple. It's up to you the user to exercise caution and steer clear of "crazies" and other bad eggs, such as they may be, and make your time useful.

Personally, I think it's ridiculous and counterproductive and flat out disrespectful for the NSM to parade around in these NS uniforms. But, you have to give them credit for publically standing up and announcing their White solidarity against the aliens and Jews. If people think NSM is inept, then get another thing together to show how to do better.

But it is not out of his control. If Vbluvens and co. are permitted to post announcements of their shows and activities on this message board it does create the impression that they have a home here. By not repudiating them it sends the signal that tacitly VNN endorses these characters, whether that's intended or not, it is a reasonable conclusion to draw, and particularly from someone new to this philosophy and "movement."

This is really not indicative of No Jews, Just Right intestinal fortitude if a group of mental defectives, led by an unstable backstabber (Bill White), can post all over Linder's forum. It's not sufficient that a few VNN handles routinely pop up to harass the NSM on the board, the NSM simply shouldn't be here period.

Apparently VB cannot remove himself from this board, even though he vowed to do it, so perhaps the VNN crew can assist him with that task, and any other NSMers who feel VNN and VNNF are their recruiting ground.

Of course, as you say we're Alex Linder's guests here and so it's his call as always, BUT I will say he's exercising terrible judgement in adhering to principles over practicality. Free speech is one thing, being used and from my perspective tarnished (guilt by association) by the NSM is foolishness. What is the purpose of VNN's media if not to define what White racialism is, and by extension is NOT???

One last thought, as always A.E. you are a master of diplomacy, backhanding the NSM while at the same time giving them credit. But there's no need for the diplomatic front, the NSM is all that you said, ridiculous and counterproductive, and serious racialists need not soften the blow. To compare the NSM to the National Alliance is absurd, given the gulf in quality and achievement between them. Frankly there is no comparison between the two. Having the NSM now is equivalent to having nothing anyway, and if the NSM went away it would be addition by subtraction.

If the NSM isn't a jewish front and they aren't on the kike payroll, then they really are stupid because they should at least get paid by the jews for a job well done, keeping racialism fringe and alienated from the White masses.

Well that idea has been proposed to Alex many times and he specifically rejects the notion that VNNforum ban dissenters like SF. I can't say I've always agreed that it was a good idea, but it's our role as mods at this forum which is his property to execute his instructions best way we can.

SF is really something altogether different, and dissenters don't necessarily need to be banned. Things should be evaluated on a case by case basis, and in the case of Bill White and the NSM what more needs to be known?

Linder should give them the boot, once and for all. As he himself said, not being able to distinguish one's friends from one's enemies in politics is fatal.

you are right (CRY HAVOC AND LET SLIP THE DOGS OF WAR…Shakespeare, Julius Caesar) but I have always liked the term loose better, it seems to denote a act of having done it more on purpus

They used to actually have dogs of war. They were fearsome brutes raised on fighting, fucking, and all that survival of the fittest stuff.

When enemy armies met on the field, the opposing armies would loose the war hounds on the enemy troops to inspire fear and chaos. The dogs, usually mastiffs, Great Danes, Shepherds, Rottweilers, and other large fighting breeds, were trained to go under the shields and bite legs and break the sheild walls to create a breech. Then the enemy would swarm in.

In the Arthur series by Bernard Cornwell, Merlin counters this tactic against the Saxons by rounding up every bitch in heat in the countryside. Then when the Saxons let loose with their dogs of war, Merlin lets the bitches out and between the two opposing armies occurs a veritable dog orgy. Hilarious scene in the book.

But it is not out of his control. If Vbluvens and co. are permitted to post announcements of their shows and activities on this message board it does create the impression that they have a home here. By not repudiating them it sends the signal that tacitly VNN endorses these characters, whether that's intended or not, it is a reasonable conclusion to draw, and particularly from someone new to this philosophy and "movement." .

Well that's almost verbatim what my friend White Will has said of it. I can't say that's an unreasonable viewpoint. There is no endorsement, but there is a possibility of a misinterpretation of an endorsement.

.... What is the purpose of VNN's media if not to define what White racialism is, and by extension is NOT???.

VNN is a media outlet for Whites, controlled by Whites, more so than a definining "racialist" brand.

"Racialism" as a self-limiting category suffers from similar defects as the "movement" concept. The idea that Whites are special in any way for giving due regard to our race-- that we are somehow different from other races or tribes for our tribalism-- that is a fallacy, and one the Jews use against us effectively. So, I don't like to call myself a "racist" like Tom Metzger does nor a "racialist" like some of these amreners. I am a White guy and I give due regard to my ethnos- my race, tribe, my blood and soil nation. I accept "White Nationalism" for identification of my political orientation but that is a fair descriptor for many reasons beyond the scope of this conversation. But what all my personal preferences or thoughts are is less consequential than immediate practical objectives.

I look at it like, these people are talking about some of the things we are talking about, and so it's an interesting conversation. Also, they are doing some things that some of our best TAA distributors find compelling. When I simply add up the weight of TAAs that a couple of our TAA guys have distributed, like what, 20 thousand copies? I have to say that I give what those distributors say and think some serious weight because they have accomplished some very tangible results.

Of course NSM has not helped VNN accomplish any of that stuff, but just that I respect what the VNN helpers think and they have said to me, that there are aspects of what NSM does that they like especially the boldness and frequency of the public demonstrations.

But it is not out of his control. If Vbluvens and co. are permitted to post announcements of their shows and activities on this message board it does create the impression that they have a home here. By not repudiating them it sends the signal that tacitly VNN endorses these characters, whether that's intended or not, it is a reasonable conclusion to draw, and particularly from someone new to this philosophy and "movement."

This is really not indicative of No Jews, Just Right intestinal fortitude if a group of mental defectives, led by an unstable backstabber (Bill White), can post all over Linder's forum. It's not sufficient that a few VNN handles routinely pop up to harass the NSM on the board, the NSM simply shouldn't be here period.

Apparently VB cannot remove himself from this board, even though he vowed to do it, so perhaps the VNN crew can assist him with that task, and any other NSMers who feel VNN and VNNF are their recruiting ground.

Of course, as you say we're Alex Linder's guests here and so it's his call as always, BUT I will say he's exercising terrible judgement in adhering to principles over practicality. Free speech is one thing, being used and from my perspective tarnished (guilt by association) by the NSM is foolishness. What is the purpose of VNN's media if not to define what White racialism is, and by extension is NOT???

One last thought, as always A.E. you are a master of diplomacy, backhanding the NSM while at the same time giving them credit. But there's no need for the diplomatic front, the NSM is all that you said, ridiculous and counterproductive, and serious racialists need not soften the blow. To compare the NSM to the National Alliance is absurd, given the gulf in quality and achievement between them. Frankly there is no comparison between the two. Having the NSM now is equivalent to having nothing anyway, and if the NSM went away it would be addition by subtraction.

If the NSM isn't a jewish front and they aren't on the kike payroll, then they really are stupid because they should at least get paid by the jews for a job well done, keeping racialism fringe and alienated from the White masses.

Damn! You sure are eloquent, Whitefist. I agree that when serious people come to VNN and see such characters as the NSM assclowns given free rein, many will, after a while, shrug in disgust and look elsewhere for answers. It's good that they will occasionally see concern from a sober quality controller like you who reinforces what's so obvious to them. It might give them hope that we all don't suffer the fools and disruptors in our midst as lightly as does Alex.

Antiochus Epiphanes wrote: Personally, I think it's ridiculous and counterproductive and flat out disrespectful for the NSM to parade around in these NS uniforms. But, you have to give them credit for publically standing up and announcing their White solidarity against the aliens and Jews. If people think NSM is inept, then get another thing together to show how to do better.

Good idea, AE. I think NSM is inept and they give White nationalism a black eye. The Jews couldn't cobble together a more effective bunch of political saboteurs from central casting out in Hollyweird, if they tried. When enough clear thinkers like Whitefist become known to one another and get together with the purpose to do so, a superior organization WILL emerge that the best among us will want to be a part of again. Nothing is more certainly written in the Book of Fate.

Yes, here goes old brutus again defending the NSM. Please allow me to enumerate.

#1) They are White men who name the jew loud and clear. And for that fact alone they are deserving of our deference. And our willingness to give them the benefit of the doubt.

#2) They have a valid reason for wearing the uniform (see my post above)

#3) There is absolutely no proof other then speculation that the NSM has a negative impact on the masses of lemmings. Hearsay is meaningless.

#4) The NSM has a well-defined plan and they are in the very rudimentary stages of implementation of that plan. None of us can honestly say that we have a crystal ball that verifies their future failure. Have we never seen a start-up company falter because of mismanagement, and then that same management when given the proper correction raise to the occasion to overcome and prevail? I am here to say that I have. It’s amazing how men will grow to our expectations of them. We should expect greatness from them, and nothing less. They are entitled to at least 5 years of withheld-criticism. If we can’t speak well of them, we should say nothing. If we must speak, then by all means bash the jew instead.

#5) It is regrettable that Bill White and Alex Linder do not see eye to eye, but that is not the White race’s problem. Our struggle is bigger then two men who cannot come to together. However, by virtue of the fact that Linder allows them to post here shows his expansiveness of character and his ability to rise above his own ego. I can follow a big man like that.

Brutus: "There is absolutely no proof other then speculation that the NSM has a negative impact on the masses of lemmings."

Watching massive crowds of whites jeering at a handful of uniformed Neo-Nazis marching down a street is proof enough for me. Recognizing the fact that even if the NSM's uniformed Nazis were winning over even one percent of the white populace, they'd have recruited THOUSANDS by now. They haven't. No speculation here - these are facts. In the end, all the NSM does is provoke anger among blacks, which is fine by me, provided they succeed at it. But whenever they leave a town behind without it burning, without a nigger or two hopefully dead too, then they've been a failure. Ideally, the NSM hasn't the intellectual talent to develop a sophisticated pro-white organization capable of grabbing the minds of the masses. They're best use, really, would be to strap on waist bombs and walk into public buildings. To me, that's the only really usefull thing they could contribute to our struggle.