Are you saying you joined the NA just because it was THERE? So, whatever you do, you do it out of convience sake eh....

Let me REPEAT myself: It was the BEST ORGANIZATION AVAILABLE AT THAT TIME.

Just because I was a member of an organization doesn't mean I rearranged my whole ideology to fit in lockstep. The National Alliance was the best available organization at that time, now it is dead. Get over it.

I thought you said that people who join cults are dysfunctional themselves. Why did you join if you don't want to be active.

You still have not provided a gameplan as an alternative to the one you are criticizing.

I thought you said that people who join cults are dysfunctional themselves. Why did you join if you don't want to be active.

You still have not provided a gameplan as an alternative to the one you are criticizing.

I don't remember saying any of that.

Many people that join cults, in fact MOST people that have joined cults(even that of Jim Jones or Heaven's Gate) are normal, rational people who fall into the clutches of the cult's programming.

Of course that is irrelevent because the Cult of Pierce was developed(or perhaps it is still in development) some considerable time after his death. I also don't remember saying that I don't want to be "active" whatever this means.

Incidentily I have been working on a gameplan for quite some time but while it is by no means ready to unveil in the near future, anyone can get the same idea from studying SUCCESSFUL revolutionary groups of the past and comparing them to the WN "movement". Once you do that you will see the problem.

.............
Incidentily I have been working on a gameplan for quite some time but while it is by no means ready to unveil in the near future, anyone can get the same idea from studying SUCCESSFUL revolutionary groups of the past and comparing them to the WN "movement". Once you do that you will see the problem.

I've been studying commies since 7th grade which for me was a long time ago. There are plenty of similarities if you regard that we are in a "pre-revolutionary" and not a revolutionary phase. Anyhow, state power is not our only objective, but social and cultural change. State power is necessary for aspects of that change, but there is a chicken and the egg problem about this anymore as the power of the state has weakened vis a vis private organizations such as corporations, and as the sovereignity of the state has been eroded as well. So, we had best appraise our situation correctly and not adopt a 20th century strategy for a 21 century problem.

Does that figure in your study? Todd is right that we often hear your critique and as of yet very little of your program.

Let me REPEAT myself: It was the BEST ORGANIZATION AVAILABLE AT THAT TIME.

Since White Will seems to think there's hope for you, I'll go easy on you for now. But do tell, how come you've never contributed one dime to TAA Project, or any other VNN activism project, I know of ??? You've been on VNNF longer than I have, and you have over 2,000 posts.

Are you simply another hobbyist who enjoys flaming and smearings for self entertainment purposes ??

Keep on knocking those strawmen down, JP.

And thank you mr. White Will for telling this story. It moves me as much as reading the old stories about Hitler and the beginning of the german national-socialist party.

You're absolutely right that JP's "cult" accusation of the NA is a straw man, 999. I can't figure why he'd be harping on that, but he does seem to be backpeddling somewhat from that line now. He joined NA in 2002, I believe he said, and stayed in for a couple of years, after Pierce's NA had been hijacked, so he didn't know the Alliance very well duriing the time Pierce was alive, nor that an professional smear artist named Harold Covington was calling the Alliance a Scientologist-like cult to every ear he could reach more than 10 years ago and ever since. JP is not in very good company with the cult smear, though he seems to be qualifying it now as having sprung up after Pierce's death by those still in the new NA.

It's a shame and a crime that the National Alliance is lost to us now, but there will be new beginnings. You are part of one that's slowly emerging right here on VNN as we hash things out. JP recognizes this and contributes in his own way, though I'd like to see him help with TAA as Glenn suggests; that builds solidarity and a sense of team spirit. We're all helping to fine tune the thinking of each other here, not just the newbies.

Since White Will seems to think there's hope for you, I'll go easy on you for now. But do tell, how come you've never contributed one dime to TAA Project, or any other VNN activism project, I know of ??? You've been on VNNF longer than I have, and you have over 2,000 posts.

Are you simply another hobbyist who enjoys flaming and smearings for self entertainment purposes ??

J.P is one of the most reasonable posters on this board, in my opinion. If he were to send in a hundred bucks or so, his esteem would rise even further, I would think. But then again, I liked what "thick chunk of hate" had to say, so think twice listening to me concerning who's reasonable and who isn't.

DK,

Part of the poison of HAC is that he mixes in some valid critique with his slanders and lies against people esp his old foes WLP and White Will. So when he pops up under some new guise, as he does from time to time, he will start off slow and reasonable, and then wind up a head of steam until he blows. I question whether or not that individual has all his marbles from viewing the erratic way his personas go haywire after a short time and almost always flame out of control.

I've been studying commies since 7th grade which for me was a long time ago. There are plenty of similarities if you regard that we are in a "pre-revolutionary" and not a revolutionary phase. Anyhow, state power is not our only objective, but social and cultural change. State power is necessary for aspects of that change, but there is a chicken and the egg problem about this anymore as the power of the state has weakened vis a vis private organizations such as corporations, and as the sovereignity of the state has been eroded as well. So, we had best appraise our situation correctly and not adopt a 20th century strategy for a 21 century problem.

Does that figure in your study? Todd is right that we often hear your critique and as of yet very little of your program.

The general guerilla resistance starts in an organization phase, a phase of intermediate operation where actual resistance begins, and finally the final stage where resistance becomes progressively conventional- the objective being control of the state in question. We are currently in a zero phase, where we can't enter the organizational phase because we don't have an ideology laid down.

Consider this: How much time is spent throughout the entire White Power "movement" talking about "honor", standards, character, morality, decency, et certera ad infinitum... At the same time we play around with labels like White Nationalist, National Socialist, Nazi, White Patriot, racialist, etc. But the fact is that nowhere is there any serious faction that HAS an identity- e.g. an ideology, and nowhere do we have set standards on what sort of people we want(keeping in mind that our first recruits need to be the future leaders), and what are the standards and moral obligations of our movement. Here's an example.

I and some others took a LOT of flak on this board about a year ago(when it was affiliated with WR) for criticizing the almost pornographic content of David Lane's KD Rebel. One of the issues brought up in the book was the claim of female bisexuality- arguing that so long as a woman didn't prefer other women exclusively they were not lesbians but could still pursue their natural bisexuality while still remaining a loyal wife to a husband. From the sound of his writing, Lane seems to have done some research in this field and he may very well have a case. What pissed me off however, is the obvious knowledge that had someone else advocated female bisexuality, they would have been attacked viciously. The fact is that there are many issues out there (particularly the role of women and drug use) that really need to be talked about openly(in the interest of cultural change and advancement) but people are afraid to ask the wrong question or present the wrong theory until some movement "celebrity" or saint puts it out there. And there are tons of minor and major issues that don't get discussed because everyone is afraid to bring the questions up. Generally it seems that if someone ASKS about something people will see them as advocating it. So honest debate is stifled.

Imagine the shock and horror most WNs would express if we were to post some of William Gayley Simpson's views on "young marriage" on this board, without revealing who wrote them? Imagine if we were to supplement those with Hitler's own similar views- again not revealing the source. What reaction would these people have when we revealed the source? They would probably take their criticism down a notch if not right accept those views because, "well HITLER did it." That is not an ideology.

The issue facing us is this: Think of the world today as a game of musical chairs, where the music is about to stop. The US is declining, losing its superpower status to China- so China has a chair scoped out the whole time. The Muslims are beginning to rise up and find unity, and they have their thousand year old ideology which covers nearly every detail of life- so they have a chair. The only people that DON'T have a chair are proud Aryan people. There are plenty of "nationalists" throughout the European world, but they haven't woken up to see the change that the world is going through- one in which European nations can only survive by relying on each other on racial grounds. There are simply not enough chairs for most European nations, their only hope is banding together behind a common banner to "capture" that chair and cast of the Jewish parasites- making them the left-out party in the "game" of geopolitics. So until we have an ideology, we can't truly have a movement, nor can we have organizations, which means we can't have any real infrastructure, which means we aren't a faction. We are currently a sub-culture, and subcultures have no bearing on the world in this case.

The issue facing us is this:

So far so good. Please continue.

Part of the poison of HAC is that he.......

Are you sure that J.P. is HAC? How so?

So far so good. Please continue.

Are you sure that J.P. is HAC? How so?

He wasn't accusing me of being HAC, I think he believed that my claims bore similarity to some of HAC's claims regarding WLP. However they are very different. The "Pierce cult" was never created by Pierce, it was built up by sycophants, mostly net-warriors, quite some time after his death.

An amendment to:

http://vnnforum.com/showpost.php?p=268471&postcount=264

State power is not the only goal of course. The main thing we need to recapture is the infrastructure for the creation of culture and moral standards; this is not merely the media as everyone believes. This is the media, academia, and intelligentsia in general. Hitler and his opponents both knew this concept- whoever can set the moral standards will always dominate the higher ground. That is why he recognized the danger of Jews not only in the media but also in teaching at all levels. Jewish intellectuals take on many different stripes, but one thing remains constant- they always maintain that anything anti-Jewish or anything that would exclude Jews specifically from a society(namely our society) is inheritly immoral, and even irrational. The question is why would we allow a foreign people with a highly foreign perspective on life determine OUR moral standards? That is the fundamental problem with Jews, even if we were to ignore everything else- they will always seek to maintain a special place within the society they live in. The morals they expouse and causes they support may be different, and their belief in those causes might be genuine, but the bottom line is that they will always ensure that Jewish preservation and immunity from criticism find a place in the particular worldview they are expousing.

RE: J.P. Slovjanski

Does that figure in your study? Todd is right that we often hear your critique and as of yet very little of your program.

Your last answer to this question was an artful circumambulation of that question.

You obviously have the wherewithal to understand the complex nature of the problem. Maybe it’s time for you to rise to the occasion and put forth the correct path as you see it.

Why not you? What do any of the other self-appointed WN spokesmen have that you don't have? Give it a shot. You're a bright man. Show us your vision.

This could be your destiny.

It is not surprising that a movement that only exists 95% on the internet, one might discount any ideology or "plan" that can't easily be posted on some forum. Keep in mind that the ideology of National Socialism, as well as every revolutionary philosophy, never came to fruition through one or even a few channels. National Socialism couldn't be contained in a book or in print. It had to be lived, it had to be taught, it had to be delivered through every medium. So it is with all revolutionary ideas. It is simply not tactically feasible to lay out such a plan at this juncture.

To answer the question about why not me as a leader, believe me I have been asking that very question since the age of 16. And since then as much as I would rather be on the front lines the whole time it seems that leadership is the path I must take. I just don't like to talk about that all the time because it smacks of arrogance.

Why not you? What do any of the other self-appointed WN spokesmen have that you don't have? Give it a shot. You're a bright man. Show us your vision.

As the old saying goes, "a prophet in his own land is never honored". (may be why Hitler left Austria for Germany)

.