Will is a strong asset to any community and he should not be banned from this forum.

"Wenn alle untreu werden, so bleiben wir doch treu."

Quote, Devere:
"Why quit? This is something I've never understood about White men. When the going gets tough, they get the hell out of there. "I object to what you're doing. I'm not going to support it. I'm going to quit!"

Are you really serious with this? Would you prefer a pack of lemmings over
men who can think for themselves? VNN is not our's to save. It's Linders.
If Linder fills his house with shit - that's HIS business. If you choose to stay
- that's your's. VNN/F does not equal The White Struggle in any case.

Yes. I'm serious. The neo-White man's strategy for dealing with a downward spiral in an organization seems to be get out while the getting's good. I think it's a dumb strategy. Stay and fix it. Or, at least, fight it. At least for a while -- until the battle is clearly LOST. It's never over till it's over. Let's stay until it's over.

Your allegations are either false, lies, exaggerated, or distorted. In some cases there is simply no possibility you could have knowledge of those things which you allege, except, of course, if you are in communication with Alex Linder - which you are not.
Bolg, I think you are pfishing. You seek clarification on events so that you can gather information, using it for your own ends - whatever they may be. Furthermore, your post is calculated to start another round of brawling and infighting.

For sometime now you've been a pigeon with one song: VNN Sucks, it is dying, it is Beck's fault. Ok, I.ve heard you, and everyone interested in this issue has heard you. I suspect most have made up their minds on this issue.

For the record, I had nothing to do with Will William's ban, it was done by Alex Linder. Alex has stated these facts. Furthermore I have never met with, spoken with, written to, and have only vaguest impressions of Will Williams. For the record, I have sent the URL of this thread to Alex Linder and I have asked Alex Linder to rescind the ban on Will Williams.

I am aware brawling might ensue. I am not sorry. VNN needs purification. I do believe you are poison to VNN. I am not phishing, I have no diabolical ends. If none of this happened, I would be the happiest person. Many times, having written what I wrote earlier today, I've closed my browser instead of hitting "Submit". I have given you the benefit of the doubt. I simply came to the conclusion you didn't deserve it.

Oh. (I don't think you'll be banned. If Beck is the enemy, banning you would be too obvious a move. Jews are subtle.)

Yes. All these bannings disturbed me too. I'm not sure the cause though. Glenn has wanted to get rid of non-contributors and non-activists. And, I think, Alex may have said the same. I think this is/was a HUGE mistake. But then Glenn and Alex are, I gather, now not communicating with each other anymore. So hard to believe Glenn and Alex have teamed up on this issue. Maybe Alex told Beck to get rid of the "do-nothing" talkers? Personally, as I've said in another thread, posting, when White-intentioned, is contributing.

This seems true. However, was Beck causal?
I thought Williams was out because Alex said "Get out." As for AE -- that's a mystery of mysteries. Or is there an underlying hidden Beck-cause? And, if you know so, why not tell us? Why not get it all out on the table, and let caring White men discuss it and try to come up with a solution -- and hopefully a way to get White and AE back.

I know this. If the anti-White bannings and segregating were to stop and if Alex and AE and White were to start posting regularly again and if those thrown into Nutzpah were allowed a White man's freedom, VNN would take off upwards again.

Well, the hell with it. Let's try to save VNN. That means determine the cause of the malaise and cure the cause. Put it all on the table.

Good post! I also thought that getting rid of "non-contributors and non-activists" was a mistake and said so many times back when Glenn and Will Williams was urging Aex along this line. My rationale was not everyone is a superstar like Stan Sikorski. Some people do what they can and others type. But that doesn't mean they should be given the boot or shunned or demeaned. VNN should include every White who is jew wise regardless of whether they contribute money or skills. Were trying to build this up not whittle it down because if Glenn(who I highly respect) has his way this place will be a fuckin ghost town. What if some "noob", curious about VNN and the jew, wanders in and posts a few times, asks a few questions and then gets pounced on because he doesn't have his own WN's radio show or newspaper or hasn't contributed 500 bucks? He's gonna say, "fuck you guys, I'm outta here". And then we're the losers because we missed another opportunity to welcome another like-minded White man that might one day be another Linder or Sikorski.

But I digress from the point of this thread which is: Is White Will welcome. Yes, Will should be welcome here. Some of the old time VNN posters might be suprised to hear me say that because Will and I were constantly arguing. In fact, Will made me so mad one time I threatened to kick his ass and he replied something along the lines of "don't let your mouth write any checks your tail can't cash". But as mad as Will used to make me I always respected him. His brains, his integrity, the things he acomplished in life and especially his devotion to our thing, as AE used to call it.

So yeah, I'd like to see Will come back but VNN ain't a democracy. Will can get a unanimous vote from the forum but in the end only one vote matters and so far he hasn't said.

Yes. I'm serious. The neo-White man's strategy for dealing with a downward spiral in an organization seems to be get out while the getting's good. I think it's a dumb strategy. Stay and fix it. Or, at least, fight it. At least for a while -- until the battle is clearly LOST. It's never over till it's over. Let's stay until it's over.

Remember the days of Belser and Pearson?
Rivers and Angry White Female?
How about Moran and White?
Look at it as a trade, Devere. I entered low and exited higher.
You're saying the move is still on.
I'm saying, "Good luck".
Time to go short.

Our border's have been opened full blast since the first 1986 Amnasty for criminal invader's and their alien regime elite's that have control of our Central government want even more invader's. Every White man in the military or public office that doe's not keep his month shut will be looking for a new job or worse. Those retired politician's and military that will be speak the truth are only heard on the internet, so the detractor's have to follow them to the net.

David Hackworth died of Cancer last May 2005, and he had come out against our lastest mess before dieing. http://www.hackworth.com

http://richardearley.net/ If you have not read Richard Earley's site, you may find it worthy.

The point of my posting is this there are real organization's on here government and private. Would you bet money that there was not?

We have dis-info specialist's that are real and not some sort of Paranoia. As most every one here knows the media is the first pillar of the dis-info beast, but there are fake patriotard's and a Majority of Christian leadership is bought and paid for to keep the sheep in their pin's.

What happened five years ago was an act of War against all the English Speaking Nation's, yet daily White's are traumatized by non-White violence. So now are fettered with a homolandsecreating poison regime that insist's of more non White's flooding in, and a final smashing of our bill of right's that now after forty long year of dumbing U.S. down are just ink spots on paper.

The real enemy has been within our gate's for decade's if not at least the last 100 years to get U.S. to this present time of tyranny. This was the spike thrust in the heart's of all the Western Nation's, and called WW 2. When a White finally Wake's up this the smoke and mirror's of media has no affect on him again.

When the Czar of Russia was in Trouble our Military wanted to resue him and Russia, but who stopped it? It was the same force's who whipped up White U.S. so called dough boy's to die, and imprisoned thousand's of patriot's who were against that lie at the time. Many of the anti War resister's stayed in prison in through 1920's.
http://www.vho.org/GB/Journals/JHR/12/1/Tojo31-85.html

http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/6315/pearl.html

For the record, I had nothing to do with Will William's ban, it was done by Alex Linder. Alex has stated these facts. Furthermore I have never met with, spoken with, written to, and have only vaguest impressions of Will Williams. For the record, I have sent the URL of this thread to Alex Linder and I have asked Alex Linder to rescind the ban on Will Williams.

Any Idea how the Other Mods Feel?

I would be curious to Hear From T. Garrett and Demonica on This.

Wouldn't it be beneficial to us all to give Will an opportunity to Contribute again?

Alex seems to me to be a Very Reasonable Man. Intelligent yes, Witty and sharp yes, but Reasonable?? Yes!!

When Issues like this come up, I always ask myself, What Would William Luther Pierce Do with a situation like this? How would he go about implementing a solution that's beneficial to all involved?

Steve B mentioned early in this thread, that [color="Red"]"Will told me via email that he would in fact, return to VNN if allowed. He also said, and these were his very words, "Alex should know he has nothing to fear from whatever I might have to contribute on his forum." "

I don't think Will's goal is to cause division

and destroy the Efforts of Alex Linder and VNN.

I would hope that Will is Correct in his promise that "Alex has nothing to Fear".

Sincerely, Billy B.

Here is a thread that caught my attention early on about Will's contributions to our cause.
http://www.vnnforum.com/showthread.php?t=781

Chain says
http://www.vnnforum.com/showpost.php?p=6887&postcount=10

If this is the real Will Williams (and I think he is), then I've a lot of admiration for this fellow.

I know who he is. He was for a time in charge of security for Dr. Pierce. Moreover, he is a skilled writer who has influenced many people.

I believe he was on both the Court TV and Michael Moore board "argumentations".
...And on the Charlotte, NC newspaper board.

But those are just forums. Will Williams is a longtime White activist. Though I've never met him, he's a longtime WN with the history and credentials of actions.

White Will says
http://www.vnnforum.com/showpost.php?p=7167&postcount=22

Thank you for your kind words, Steve. I had a similar relationship with Robert a few years back when I was on a tiny list of friends that included him, the Metzgers, Matt Hale and a handful of others. RF was always so gracious and so patient to bring folks like us up to speed and "thinking outside the box" on matters. I was a little put off by his slams of Ernst Zundel and others who weren't really racists, but who were throwing bait. Seeing a documentary video of Ernst's great HolyHoax trial and the gauntlet of rabid Jewish vermin who were attacking him each day as he entered and exited the courthouse is one of the mileposts of my total commitment to being a Jew-fighter. I couldn't believe my eyes watching the hate in their faces. I'd never seen such hate before -- and it became crystal clear to me then that it was directed at me and mine. Now it turns out that Robert and Eric were right about Mr. Zundel's luke warm commitment and slow transition into "patriot for profit." And now Marc Weber bites the dust. We need revisionist historians, but not soft ones that are afraid to be associated with us.

I brought Tom and John Metzger to Raleigh in January of 1988 to speak at a rally I organized. I overheard Tom telling someone that if he had one wish for his son it would be that he could work with Ben Klassen for a year. Klassen lived in my state, NC, but I had never heard of him before. Oddly enough, Harold Covington, who had moved back to Raleigh to take advantage of the void in southern nationalism left by the banning of our White Patriot Party. I had recently met him and was impressed with at first because of how much he seemed to know about the "movement." He gave me a big box of racist material in which I found Klassen's book, _ Building a Whiter and Brighter World_. I started reading that book and, crude as it was, within a couple of hours it cleared away a lifetime of cobwebs in my cherry brain, especially so soon after having hung around a bunch of spook-chasing "Adamic" Aryans. "Aha! Eureka!" I said, and called Tom, remembering what he had said, and got Ben's phone number.

And now you know...the rest of the story.

Bryon says
http://www.vnnforum.com/showpost.php?p=7295&postcount=25

Even though my wife is Identity and I know Will's stance on Xianity, we have both known Will for years and like him and personally support him. Most of the negative stuff I have ever heard about him is the usual personal baggage related stuff one would expect to accumulate after decades in the movement snake-pit.

Will Williams has walked the walk and talked the talk. Not a keyboard warrior.
I first met Will when he was the Regional Coordinator for the Carolinas. Our cause could use all the Will Williams that it could get its hands on. You've got to stratch your head and wonder why so-called leaders would want to shun a guy that is a hero and looked up to by many racially aware Whites? Will is not going to come on here and beg. If you don't like him, you don't like him- pretty simple. At the same time Will probably has bigger and better things to do besides getting into pissing contests on VNN.

You haven't replied to my post, Bolg. Aren't you going to?

I am going to, Devere. Let me get some chores at work done (it's morning here), and I'll get to it. Last night I had no fuel left to go on about the topic.

Oh. (I don't think you'll be banned. If Beck is the enemy, banning you would be too obvious a move. Jews are subtle.)

I do not think he is a jew - I didn't call him one. I do think he has character peculiarities that make him bad for the supreme mod/admin job. His impulsivenes and vengefulness in particular. That's why I called him "Estrogen Jose". The head mod should be even-headed, calm and very thick-skinned. Glenn Miller said somewhere in this thread Linder and Williams were both alpha-males. This is true, but the majority of the people drawn to Nationalism tend to be strong willed in general. Therefore, the place is always on the verge of explosion. A mod here should be a bit of a politician. Antiochus had this quallity, he was a good mod. Do you remember R-Mac? He wasn't.

Yes. All these bannings disturbed me too. I'm not sure the cause though. Glenn has wanted to get rid of non-contributors and non-activists. And, I think, Alex may have said the same. I think this is/was a HUGE mistake. But then Glenn and Alex are, I gather, now not communicating with each other anymore. So hard to believe Glenn and Alex have teamed up on this issue. Maybe Alex told Beck to get rid of the "do-nothing" talkers? Personally, I think, as I've said in another thread, posting, when White-intentioned, is contributing.

I newbie here needs a bit of adjusting, until he feels comfortable, grows to love the place and is ready to contribute substantially. For some it takes longer than for others. At the time Glenn Miller said those things about kicking out non-contributors, he was cornered, a swarm o'jews gnawing at him, attacking. He went a bit extreme, he does sometimes. As for Alex Linder's words "chatterers begone", I took it as a more refined "send me some freakin' money". If that was the meaning, he is right. We need to organize paying the expences, enough to support this place. In fact, there should not have been need for him to say the words - we are supposed to think of paying the expenses. After all, this place is a gathering of very bright people, right? Whatever Linder's intentions though, Beck made a mess of the whole thing. He found himself a king overnight (footing the hosting bill and all) and went drunk. With entitlement.

This seems true. However, was Beck causal?
I thought Williams was out because Alex said "Get out." As for AE -- that's a mystery of mysteries. Or is there an underlying hidden Beck-cause? And, if you know so, why not tell us? Why not get it all out on the table, and let caring White men discuss it and try to come up with a solution -- and hopefully a way to get White and AE back.

The cause was the very graphic (and crude) picture of a black dick up a white woman's ass. It turned out the collage wasn't Linders doing, but Beck's. When the shitstorm began, he lowered himself down and let Linder take it all. Linder took it allright. But this resulted in his losing valuable supporters (I guess friends too), ones that could be counted upon. Over something he did not do. What would've been the right thing to do? Beck standing up and taking the beating like a man. And apologising.

I know this. If the anti-White bannings and segregating were to stop and if Alex and AE and White were to start posting regularly again and if those thrown into Nutzpah were allowed a White man's freedom, VNN would take off upwards again.

Well, the hell with it. Let's try to save VNN. That means determine the cause of the malaise and cure the cause. Put it all on the table.

Healing is so slow a process... We'll see. I would content myself with Alex Linder posting on the front page more often.

As for Beck, he could still do the manly thing, without losing face. It would win him back respect, because there is no shame in admitting you're not good at a job. It's a shame to insist doing it badly.

I think I hijacked the thread.

The cause was the very graphic (and crude) picture of a black dick up a white woman's ass. It turned out the collage wasn't Linders doing, but Beck's.

Just listened to Goyfire 44, in which Alex Linder sais the porno collage was his idea. This makes my assertion of it being Beck's doing false.

Hereby I publicly appologise to Geoff Beck for this accusation.

I do not think he is a jew - I didn't call him one. I do think he has character peculiarities that make him bad for the supreme mod/admin job. His impulsivenes and vengefulness in particular. That's why I called him "Estrogen Jose". The head mod should be even-headed, calm and very thick-skinned. Glenn Miller said somewhere in this thread Linder and Williams were both alpha-males. This is true, but the majority of the people drawn to Nationalism tend to be strong willed in general. Therefore, the place is always on the verge of explosion. A mod here should be a bit of a politician. Antiochus had this quallity, he was a good mod. Do you remember R-Mac? He wasn't.

Yes. AE was ideal.

A newbie here needs a bit of adjusting, until he feels comfortable, grows to love the place and is ready to contribute substantially. For some it takes longer than for others. At the time Glenn Miller said those things about kicking out non-contributors, he was cornered, a swarm o'jews gnawing at him, attacking. He went a bit extreme, he does sometimes. As for Alex Linder's words "chatterers begone", I took it as a more refined "send me some freakin' money". If that was the meaning, he is right. We need to organize paying the expences, enough to support this place. In fact, there should not have been need for him to say the words - we are supposed to think of paying the expenses. After all, this place is a gathering of very bright people, right?

Yes. ALL OF US WHO CARE ABOUT THE SURVIVAL OF THE WHITE RACE -- should be sending Alex regular monthly checks. I've been sending him $10 a month for a long time. It's not much, I admit. But it adds up. I only mention this to encourage others to do likewise. If all of us sent him $10 -- or more if we can afford it -- I have a feeling we'd make good profits on our modest investment. We must financially support those few talented men who have put everything on the line FOR US.

Whatever Linder's intentions though, Beck made a mess of the whole thing. He found himself a king overnight (footing the hosting bill and all) and went drunk. With entitlement.

Indeed. What exactly do you mean by "footing the bill and all"? Is there a monetary aspect to the Beck moderatorship? Did Beck buy his way into prominance and the moderatorship? (If he's the right man for both jobs -- prominance and moderator -- no problema. If he's not, mucho problema -- in fact, the possible death of VNN.)

The cause was the very graphic (and crude) picture of a black dick up a white woman's ass.

Okay. But it hasn't happened since. I gather the lesson has been well learnt. The punishment -- the sometime loss of AE, with all that that has resulted in -- duly meted out. Time for AE to return.

It turned out the collage wasn't Linders doing, but Beck's.

This is a somewhat astounding bit of news. If true, Beck should be out on his ass -- apology or not.

When the shitstorm began, he lowered himself down and let Linder take it all. Linder took it allright. But this resulted in his losing valuable supporters (I guess friends too), ones that could be counted upon. Over something he did not do. What would've been the right thing to do? Beck standing up and taking the beating like a man. And apologising.

I once, on another thread, said that Beck had shown himself to be a little man. If what you have said is true, I understated -- he is a little BASTARD.

Now: How do you, Bolg, know all this? How do we know you are privy to all this inside knowledge? How do we know you are telling the truth?

Healing is so slow a process... We'll see.

Healing can ONLY be founded on truth. If what you have said is the truth, it is a worthy contribution -- and a good place to build from.

I would content myself with Alex Linder posting on the front page more often.

Of the forum? Posting more often than not at all? That would be most helpful to the saving of this White Truth forum.

As for Beck, he could still do the manly thing, without losing face. It would win him back respect,

It would win him back some respect. But actions and inactions have their inevitable consequences -- and that's how it should be. At the least -- if what you have said is true -- he should immediately lose his moderatorship -- even if there's nobody to replace him for a time. No moderatorship is better than bad moderatorship.

...because there is no shame in admitting you're not good at a job. It's a shame to insist doing it badly.

There is praiseworthiness is having tried and failed. Few try. Only the brave try. Geoff Beck deserves credit for having tried -- assuming what he was trying was not the subversion of VNN. (I don't think it was.)

I think I hijacked the thread.

Yes. But subjects come up -- and need to be dealt with. Let's make it a two-pronged thread.

Just listened to Goyfire 44, in which Alex Linder sais the porno collage was his idea. This makes my assertion of it being Beck's doing false.

Hereby I publicly appologise to Geoff Beck for this accusation.

Obvious lesson for you, Bolg (and for everybody on the forum): Don't make accusations that carry large consequences, including severe damage to a White man's reputation -- unless you have very substantial evidence -- unless you really KNOW what you are claiming is true. If you have a suspicion, pm the person directly and give him a chance to defend himself before you go public. But, if you are certain of the truth of your stance, and the issue needs public airing -- go public with it.