quote:I don't necessarily trust technology, but I do trust human ingenuity. Civilization as we know it will grind to a halt without the energy we derive today from crude oil, and that's in and of itself is motivation enough to make sure that future energy is widely available at prices people can afford)

I think what von mises article also points out is that humans will run out of brains first before the “universal energy” ever could.

There is probably allot of truth to this, In the west they will impliment this shift that you've stated, getting us out of our private cars. Than the oil will flow to China and India where they will fit billions with automobiles and the energy companies will score huge fueling these grotesque nations. If all goes according to plan chances are the oil will flow from greater Israel which is probably expanding as we speak under the smokescreen that the Iraq war is creating.

Socialism has been used by a million men to mean a million things, but generally it means greed. Socialists denounce the West for "using too many resources," or destroying the environment, some variant of these complaints.

When you know the socialists' character (greed for others' goods) you can go immediately to their agenda. Yeah, I know aristotle says it's illogical, but it works 99% of the time. I suppose it's theoretically possible a socialist make a factually substantiated argument rather than a veiled moralism, but I can't recall one.

So, if I know that Al Gore would like to see America become like europe, with gas at $5 a gallon, government collecting $4 of that; with tolls every 22 miles on the interstate, and legal restrictions against 'excessive' travel, then I can work backwards to the policy prescription. Socialists always cloak their moralism in some noble language about the good of the people or saving the environment. Their actions show they're greedy and immoral and primarily interested in stealing what others have earned while lecturing them.

So, maybe oil supply is finite, maybe not. If so, maybe it runs out in 40 years, maybe 100. Maybe new oil supplies are found, maybe not. Maybe new ways of reaching high-hanging oil are found, maybe not. Maybe oil substitutes are developed, maybe not.

It doesn't add up to apocalypse.

"Faith in a cause is a substitute for lost faith in oneself" - that's what Eric Hoffer said.

The point is not to align midgets behind a Great Leader, the point is to accumulate and organize determined, able men. Look to the jews, as they are the best organized people on earth. They have no great leaders; their leaders are ugly or obese trolls, most of them. But their organization and determination are exemplary. Let us meet and then beat their example.

Perhaps not covering it up exactly, but it's definately a third-rail of politics. No major news source will come out and acknowledge the possibility that oil is a finite resource. It's not even open to debate, it seems. But as far as the science is concerned, the burden of proof still rests with the abiotic crowd.

You are very right about there being an overabundance of leftists on the peak oil bandwagon.

I'm not going to prolong this discussion any more. After all this is a WN board and I don't want to divert the focus any more than necessary. Bottom line to everything here is, without White unity, peak oil is really an afterthought.

This isn't a WN board; or it is, but that involves everything, not just politics. So discuss freely.

I truly don't see what you mean about this being suppressed. I posted the article from Rockwell and a blog, those were two I came across in a brief google search. I don't detect any fear codewords in this discussion as we always see when it comes to race. The pro-peakers cite Chevron's (?) site discussing the matter, aiming to involve the public.

I'm not being flippant, and I’ve asked you this before. How? All we are doing now is resisting, to some small degree. This was Dr. Pierce's formula: 1) Build the media capabilities of my ORGANIZATION. 2) Reach just 2% of the White population and bring them into my organization and make them active participants in a revolution to regain our destiny and self-determination. 3) Use the clout and finances of the organization and its media to destroy Jewish power and run them out or kill them off. VNN has been building media, but I don’t think we’ll get anywhere without two and three.

Hey, progress is being made, but number 1 is a turning out to be a longer harder slog than many expected. That's all. It's not easy. We need more talent, harder work, etc.

WND Exclusive Commentary Oil found in bedrock structures since 1930s

Posted: November 30, 2005
1:00 a.m. Eastern

© 2005 WorldNetDaily.com

GeoScience Limited is a petroleum industry consulting company in the United Kingdom that specializes in bedrock formations and oil production from fractured basement reserves. GeoScience maintains on its website a technical summary that details the occurrences of commercial hydrocarbon reservoirs in fractured basement rocks from 30 different countries. The review concentrates only on those petroleum reservoirs found in igneous, metamorphic, and volcanic rocks – what petroleum geologists like to call "basement formations."

"Why is such a survey needed?" is the question a true believer of the "Fossil-Fuel" theory might ask. If oil is an organic product produced from the debris of dead dinosaurs and ancient forests, then oil should only be found in sedimentary rock, the softer debris upon which flora and fauna are found on Earth. Why look anywhere else?

Some geologists might make an argument that oil could possibly be found in metamorphic rock, since metamorphic rock is typically sedimentary rock that has been hardened under intense Earth pressure that results, for instance, when mountains are formed. But few "Fossil-Fuel" geologists ever bother to look for oil in igneous or volcanic rock. When oil is found in igneous or volcanic rock, "Fossil-Fuel" theorists just explain the problem away by assuming that that the oil has "seeped down" into the basement rock through faults or fissures from the sedimentary "source rock" where the oil was formed.

Yet there is another way of looking at the problem. The oil found in basement rock may well be abiotic oil, a deep-Earth product that forms naturally in the mantle of the Earth and seeps up into sedimentary levels. For this reason, oil found in or below basement rock represents a direct challenge to the "Fossil-Fuel" theory. The compilation maintained by GeoScience makes clear that oil in commercially productive amounts has been found in basement rocks for more than seven decades – since the 1930s – all around the world. Responsible geologists are forced to acknowledge the data, even when they decide to dismiss the data. As GeoScience explains:

The occurrence of naturally fractured basement reservoirs has been known within the hydrocarbon industry for many years but generally regarded as non-productive, they have failed to draw the attention of the explorationist. Often passed over as "of no economic potential," their investigation by exploratory drilling has been left to chance. Yet they are commonly distributed in various petroliferous regions throughout the world.

Put more simply, when confronted with evidence that directly challenges the "Fossil-Fuel" theory, traditionally trained petro-geologists tend to close their eyes and dismiss the evidence as insignificant. It's much more comfortable to shut out any information that conflicts with conventional wisdom. The politically correct view throughout the petroleum industry remains even today that the origin of hydrocarbon "fuel" is "fossils," dead dinosaurs and ancient forest debris that have cooked relatively close to the Earth's surface in sedimentary rock, over eons, at the high pressure conditions needed to transform the biological debris into petroleum.

GeoScience generally accommodates the "fossil-fuel" argument that organically formed oil has settled in basement rock reservoirs. Still, GeoScience acknowledges the challenge that the oil found in bedrock may be abiotic, citing the work of Russian geologist A.A. Kitchka:

Recent work by Kitchka supports the theory of an inorganic mantle origin of petroleum. His paper introduces the concept that petroleum represents a complex derivative of the fluid inclusions saturated with hydrocarbons in crustal and mantle minerals. He concludes that the multi-stage segregation and migration of deep petroleum are realized by fracturing and faulting. He cites a total of 370 oil and gas fields with commercial productivity from crystalline basement.

The GeoScience compilation also references a technical paper published 45 years ago, in 1960, in which a group of geologists led by K.K. Landes reported that about 100 million barrels of oil had been produced to that date from various basement-rock structures worldwide. Landes reported that petro-geologists had found most of these discoveries by accident. Typically, oil companies stop drilling operations as soon as bedrock is reached, believing that there will be little or no chance for oil production.

Landes disagreed. He cautioned that the probable reserves recoverable from basement rock are of such a magnitude that "discovery by design should become the rule." Landes wondered how many oil discoveries had been missed because of inadequate exploration of the "barely scratched" basement rocks. Also apparent from the analysis is that conventionally trained petro-geologists find no reason whatsoever to drill through bedrock to examine deep-Earth structures in the upper mantle.

Some of the wells reported in the compilation are surprising, especially given the mindset of "Fossil-Fuel" theorists. Consider just two examples from as early as the 1930s:

Orth Field, Central Kansas (Rice County)

Discovered in 1933, the Orth field lies in northwestern Rice County. The oil was produced from fractured PreCambrian quartzite on the summits of the buried hills. Each well produced an average of 120 bbl/day (barrels per day) of oil with a maximum production of 939 bbl/day. About 1,243,000 barrels of oil had been produced from quartzite in 16 wells in the Orth field by the beginning of January 1952.

El Segundo Field, California

El Segundo oil field, which was discovered in 1935, is located along the coast of Santa Monica Bay, southwest of Los Angeles County. The field is divided into two areas by a northwest trending zone of faulting. The eastern part produces from a basal conglomerate made up of schist pebbles with the western part producing directly from fractures in the schist itself.

The first well was drilled to the east of the faulted fracture zone. The daily production of oil from the basal conglomerate was about 600 barrels. The western part of the field began producing in 1937 from the fractured schist reservoir. The production rate was 4,563 bbl/day at a depth of 7,253 ft. (2,210 meters, 1.37 miles). This discovery was accidental as the well was exploring for the schist conglomerate. 66 wells were drilled in the development of the El Segundo field with a wide variation in production from adjacent wells.

Traditional petro-geologists would argue that these bedrock oil fields were small, relatively insignificant finds. They would certainly point out that the fields ultimately depleted. Such typically dismissive comments miss the main point of this column. If oil is "fossil fuel," then why has so much oil for such a long period of time been found in bedrock structures? Moreover, why don't these bedrock oil finds stimulate more extensive exploration in the deep-Earth structures below the bedrock where oil is found?

The answer to both questions is simple. When oil exploration data do not fit comfortably into accepted theory, petro-geologists minimize the results in order to stifle the investigation, preferring to avoid the disturbing possibility that the "Fossil-Fuel" theory itself might be nothing more than a convenient fiction.

This intellectual discomfort is at the heart of the reason why Thomas Kuhn, author of the 1962 classic book, "The Structure of Scientific Revolutions," argues that paradigm shifts in science are so difficult. Alternative paradigms, such as the abiotic, "Deep-Earth" theory of the origin of oil, are typically championed first by "outsiders" – in this case by Cornell astronomer Thomas Gold, author of the 1998 classic book "The Deep Hot Biosphere: The Myth of Fossil Fuels" – or, in this instance by us, Craig Smith and myself, the authors of "Black Gold Stranglehold: The Myth of Scarcity and the Politics of Oil."

Risking careers by challenging traditional ideas is understandably more difficult for those who have invested decades of their lives in the unquestioned belief of scientifically conventional views.

Forget everything you think you know about oil
'Black Gold Stranglehold' explodes common myths

Posted: October 18, 2005
1:00 a.m. Eastern

© 2005 WorldNetDaily.com

If you believe that oil is a fossil fuel, be prepared to have your thoughts turned upside down.

If you believe that the U.S. has no choice but to rely on foreign oil until we ultimately run out of the precious resource, prepare to be challenged by new views that "have the opportunity to help give birth to a new generation of oil politics and economics."

WND Books' newest release, "Black Gold Stranglehold: The Myth of Scarcity and the Politics of Oil," by Jerome R. Corsi and Craig R. Smith, explores and debunks some of the popular myths surrounding the international and domestic politics of oil production and consumption to provide Americans with beneficial information while being held in a virtual stranglehold at the gas-pumps.

In "Black Gold Stranglehold," Corsi and Smith expose the fraudulent science and irresponsible politics that have been sold to American people in order to enslave them. By debunking several myths, Corsi and Smith provide an outline for progress that would help to establish America as energy-independent.

Be prepared to be challenged by:

* The myth of fossil fuels: Corsi and Smith argue that the deep abiotic theory of oil is a more reliable theory than the fossil fuel theory. It rejects the contention that oil was formed from the remains of plant and animal life that died millions of years ago. Instead, they believe in Thomas Gold's argument that oil is abiotic: "a primordial material that the earth forms and exudes on a continual basis" and is "pushed upward toward the earth's surface by the intense pressures of the earth's core and the influence of the centrifugal force that the earth exerted upon the specific gravity of oil as a fluid substance."

* The running-out-of-oil myth: The 1970s scientific study known as Hubbert's Peak, predicting we would exhaust oil reserves by 2003, has been proven false. We are currently sitting on "more proven petroleum reserves than ever before despite the increasing rate at which we are consuming petroleum products. New and gigantic oil fields are being discovered at an increasing rate, in places the fossil fuel theory would never have been predicted as possible.

* The global warming hoax and other environmental myths: Corsi and Smith present compelling evidence that "burning fossil fuels does not release into the air chlorofluorocarbons or halon compounds, the types of chemicals identified as the culprits causing holes in the ozone." Instead, "human beings breathe in oxygen and exhale carbon dioxide" while "plants absorb carbon dioxide and throw out oxygen."

* The folly of oil conservation: "Black Gold Stranglehold" presents and documents how no alternative energy option has been able to provide enough energy and how each alternative has been deemed uneconomical.

* Oil playing a part in the illegal-immigration problem: Mexico has the third largest proven reservoirs of crude oil in the Western Hemisphere behind Venezuela and the U.S. As a result, the United States imports virtually all the oil Mexico exports. Consequently, "the U.S. government finds it difficult to take a systematic, hard look at the nearly free flow of illegal immigrants coming across our southern border. As a hedge against instability in the Middle East, the U.S. government has to calculate our oil needs when considering any steps we take regarding Mexico or illegal immigrants.

* The value of the dollar and its effect on terrorism: "In recent years the buying power of the dollar has decreased 40 percent on the average against all major foreign currencies. Since dollars can no longer be exchanged for gold, no hard, fixed commodity stands behind the U.S. international payments, including oil purchases. Osama bin Laden's "war against America was fueled by his belief that the U.S. has stolen the oil of Muslim countries. At the core of the issue is bin Laden's perception that America has paid for oil, a hard commodity, with paper dollars that are no longer backed as they once were by the hard commodity of gold."

* How high the price of oil?: "Today, the U.S. oil industry is sitting on a quantity of oil reserves that has never been higher. Still, we have built no new refineries, and the refineries in operation are producing at or near capacity. The picture that emerges is one of industry conglomerates simply sitting on large reserves and waiting for oil prices to go even higher. At some point, increased gasoline prices become an inevitable drag on the economy."

* Terrorism and Its Threat to Oil: Terrorists are "willing to bet that the U.S. will not be able to afford politically or economically a protracted global war against radical Islamic terrorism. Terrorists, like governments determined to impose price controls on oil, act to disrupt free markets. In doing so, they clearly understand the economic harm they can inflict."

Corsi and Smith believe that America can and will become energy independent if some steps are taken to correct the aforementioned problems. In addition, they not only meticulously lay out the problems facing American oil interests, but have developed a seven-step action toward U.S. Oil Independence by:

Promoting scientific research to investigate alternative theories.

* Expediting leases offshore and in Alaska to encourage oil exploration.

* Providing tax credits for deep-drilling oil exploration.

* Creating an oil research institute to serve as a clearinghouse of oil industry information.

* Developing a public broadcasting television series devoted to the oil industry.

* Reestablishing a gold-backed international trade dollar.

* Establishing tax incentives for opening new refineries in the U.S.

In the end, "Black Gold Stranglehold" not only provides solutions, but it will empower consumers and oil industry professionals to drastically change the debate about oil. This book is sure to cause thoughtful people to reconsider the U.S. dependence on foreign oil and its effects on our economy.

@ Linder: That is a very interesting article. Geological science certainly has come a long way in the last few decades. I still think, however, that whatever oil is "replenished" in the mantle of the earth is not significant enough to alter Hubbert's Curve. I mean, just look at Texas, Oklahoma and Louisiana (not counting offshore): They've been dry for years and have not replenished. Now I have heard talk about the possibility of deep drilling, as in far deeper than conventional oil, in order to reach the good stuff. That would take quite a feat of engineering, however. I will say that Thomas Gold and his followers have always given me an uneasy feeling, because it seems like their ideas are tailor-made for the modern oil consumer, and more often than not the science itself is an afterthough to the impact it has on economics and politics.

It might be better to cite the works of American geologist JF Kenney who studied for 15 years with the Russian geologists who formulated the abiotic theory. Kenney is a member of the Russian Academy of Sciences.

http://www.csun.edu/%7Evcgeo005/Energy.html

Black Gold Stranglehold looks like a book worth reading.

Great catch, Herr Sutter! This is an exciting paper, reading it now..

I'd have to side with the abiotics after reading that. It is inherently more plausible that oil seeps up from below rather than amounts to dinosaur squeezin's.

It is no surprise that Americans are unaware of research in Russia. I've found in reporting that much more frequently than one would think men in the same business, working on the same problem, are unaware of each other's existence.

It would seem logical to me that capitalists would put out some money to test the abiotic theory outside Russia. Perhaps that is happening, I don't know.

Socialism has been used by a million men to mean a million things, but generally it means greed. Socialists denounce the West for "using too many resources," or destroying the environment, some variant of these complaints.

When you know the socialists' character (greed for others' goods) you can go immediately to their agenda. Yeah, I know aristotle says it's illogical, but it works 99% of the time. I suppose it's theoretically possible a socialist make a factually substantiated argument rather than a veiled moralism, but I can't recall one.

So, if I know that Al Gore would like to see America become like europe, with gas at $5 a gallon, government collecting $4 of that]
I agree with what you've said here.
We whites need to employ the jewish model as our strategy because evidently it works and after all we whites are the new Diaspora, in need of a homeland. repeat after me "Next year in Calgary" or Salt Lake City...

 

Question to consider.

The Titanic is on its way to the iceberg, what do you do: plan for the sinking or attempt to wrest control of the bridge?

To answer my own question I say every bit of our energy and resources needs to be focused on the present and regaining control of our ship.

Once we have assumed political control then we can entertain theories about the future of the ship. Until such time the clucking chicken littles will be wasting everyone's time planning for a falling sky. And as I have suggested before, maybe that is exactly the desired result of the PO hokum peddlers.

One more thing to consider: why no oil refineries have been built in the USA since 1976. Is it really that in all the 9,000,000+ square km of US territory, that no suitable place can be found to construct one? Wow, all that land and no room for a refinery? Or is it that the oil majors see the end coming and don't want to make the investment in new refineries, because they know it's not going to pay off?

This abiotic oil research is quite interesting, no doubt. But how much oil has it yielded (that is, how much oil has it produced that conventional methods would not be able to produce)? Zero, to the best of my knowledge. Perhaps I am wrong about this?

There is probably allot of truth to this, In the west they will impliment this shift that you've stated, getting us out of our private cars. Than the oil will flow to China and India where they will fit billions with automobiles and the energy companies will score huge fueling these grotesque nations. If all goes according to plan chances are the oil will flow from greater Israel which is probably expanding as we speak under the smokescreen that the Iraq war is creating.

China is building refineries out the ass,not only in China,but in Africa.

Refineries are being built all over the globe but not in the U.S..

I think what is going on here ties into the whole U.N. "sustainable development" swindle,which is really aimed at White nations in order to reduce our standard of living.

Remember the Kyoto Protocol?
It wasn't aimed at India or China or third-world nations,only wealthy,White nations.

Why is America being saddled with these "free trade" agreements that will reduce our living standard while liquidating much of the middle class?

Why has our manufacturing sector been gutted?

Why are we being flooded with wave upon unassimilable wave of third-world immigrants?

Is all this not aimed at "harmonizing" our system into a global economy,that is,deliberately reducing the living standard in Western nations to that of your typical third-world pisspot?

I think "peak oil" propaganda is a small piece of that puzzle.

One thing I've come to really dislike in WN circles is this environmentalist fearmongering nonsense that plays right into hands of our enemies.Far too many WN's have loopy,media-propaganda fed ideas about Nature.And they've bought much of the scary scenarios and nonsense about "scarce resources" hook,line,and sinker.

Greater govt.control,more regulation and taxes ,contracted freedoms,etc can be justified if the people can be hoodwinked into thinking that resources are scarce or some catastrophe lies just over the horizon or some big bad evil terr'ists are waiting to attack us.

Fear works!

Fear blinds people and clouds their judgement.It makes them go along with things they'd never otherwise put up with.

One of the best methods that govt's have utilized in the last 40-50 years to gain greater control over their populations is by scaring the public with environmental catastrophe scenarios.

Back in the 60's and 70's you had govt.and foundation-funded kikes and scaremongers like Paul Ehrlich predicting global famine,mass death,rioting,and global resource shortages due to human overpopulation.Some of you may remember back in the 60's all the propaganda about how we should limit ourselves to only one child,as we were "destroying the planet" due to overpopulation.
Here we are 40 years later,with a human population that has nearly doubled,and the rhetoric of overpopulation still has not subsided.I don't like the prospect of the planet housing billions more mud people either,but to say the planet is overpopulated and running short of resources is a load of bull.

Non-human animals and insects collectively consume more resources,water,vegetation,etc than humans do,yet has the world run short on any of these things?Other life forms were on this planet a billion years before humans yet they didn't use it all up.
WN's have all too typical lefty notions about nature being "fragile".

Nature isn't fragile!

Nature constantly recycles,replenishes,mends what appears to be completely destroyed.Anyone remember the eruption of Mt. St. Helens?
You had miles upon miles of seared landscape,grassless,treeless,no insects,or animals.In a few generations that once bald landscape will once again be a thriving ecosystem.In fact,in 100 years you'd never be able to tell a volcano had once sheared the area clean.
As far as humans "destroying the environment",that's laughable.A volcano,hurricane,or earthquake can do in a few moments what a year of carpet bombing cannot do.

As far as nature giving a shit one way or the other what survives and what doesn't,well,it doesn't.
99.999% of all lifeforms have disappeared but nature doesn't miss a beat.If the mighty tiger disappeared tomorrow something else would fill its niche.

I only bring this up because WN fantasizing about Mother Nature saving us by running low on oil just in the nick of time for a mass dieoff of mudpeople and the end of jew rule so that the White race may live is a ridiculous apocalyptic fantasy that anyone ought to be too embarrassed to indulge.

Too many WN's are just like the lemmings they mock:they think everything can be solved in 15 minutes without any real work,danger,strain,fruitless toil,or without any potential loss to themselves.

Like a Hollywood movie,everything has a happy ending.

Like the typical amerikwan,success doesn't involve any real effort or long-term struggle or sacrifice,just go to the casino or play lotto and win a million! So thinks the lemming. Let the world run out of oil! Let the economy collapse! Then we'll have the jews by the shorthairs! So thinks some WN's.

It is precisely this delusional,pathetic,lazy mentality that has helped lead the White world down the crapper it's in today.

I know that things around us look bleak as hell and fantasy is a great comfort for the helplessness and hopelessness we sometimes feel,so I understand the temptation all too well.But we have to be better and stronger than Nietzsche's "many,all too many".