Brutus,

The reason he is being “kicked in the teeth,” is because he “kicked in the teeth” of men who never ratted on him or testified against him. We are only removing him from an internet forum for a couple of days—he attempted to destroy the lives of good men like Pastor Butler and Louis Beam. Ostracizing a rat is something that is so self-evident it shouldn’t even have to be discussed. Since there still seems to be a moral dilemma for one or two VNNers, the reasons that rats are ostracized is so that A) they don’t rat on anybody again and B) other rats are discouraged from testifying.

Ben Vinyard

Miller's side of the story is that he hid David Lane and took a bag of money. He was then forced to testify about those two acts. He was not a member of the Order and did not know them personally. He swore no oath of fealty to them. If Miller was not even a member of the Order how can he be an informant? I have not seen you present any evidence to animadvert his side of the story.

I suggest you look into the Tim Mcveigh case a little closer. The men at Elohim City were all White Nationalists. In the Oklahoma City bombing there were two men now known to have been informants, namely, Andy the German and Dennis Mahon. Guess what? They both walked away Scot-free. They were never touched. So the evidence suggests informants don't do a day of time, they just dissappear.

This was all a big grandstand on WR's part. Such high drama and proclamations of high ethics and loyalty on Billy's part that some day I hope he gets to prove. One more thing, Billy should stop making comments about all forum members being internet cowards. I was at most of his NA rallies and I drove down for Chester's in Gainesville. Kurtz was at all of his rallies.

Sure we have our cowardly little freaks like the mentally retarded Doc Martin, but please don't make blanket statements.

Miller's side of the story is that he hid David Lane and took a bag of money.

How does that justify for one second testifying against Richard Scutari, Louis Beam, Pastor Butler or Robert Miles?

Ben Vinyard

What did he testify against those guys with? I was under the impression that they were above ground and legal? I know Pastor Butler was too nice a guy, and took people in who caused him nothing but legal troubles.

How does that justify for one second testifying against Richard Scutari, Louis Beam, Pastor Butler or Robert Miles?

Ben Vinyard

Dude, long time ago Glen Miller was a totally awesome musician.

Dude, why is everyone totally hasslin' him?

I've been also laying back on this debate for a long time, but I finally had to say somethng. You're going to have to click onto my website, however, to read what I think. Here: http://www.whitealert.com/editorial1.htm

Mr. Brooks,

Thank you for weighing in with your comments. Your opinions are always valued.

“Why is Robert Jay Matthews now being lionized as a martyr at least on par with Jesus Christ? As Alex Linder has pointed out, these guys robbed banks, and when you rob banks you are eventually going to be caught and put into jail.”

Why is Alex Linder lionizing Glenn Miller at least on par with Jesus Christ? Glenn Miller took $200,000 of illegal money and when you take $200,000 of illegal money you are eventually going to get caught and go to jail—unless you can cut a deal with the feds and testify against fellow Whites. Mr. Linder has stated several times on VNN and VNNF that he believes the only solution is a violent one. I believe he uses the phrase, “horizontal expulsion.” Does he believe this will become legal any time soon? And will it become justified only when it is declared legal? Do you see the inconsistency? Men who tried to spark the “horizontal expulsion” that Mr. Linder believes in and writes about are put down as mere “bank robbers” while a government rat is placed as a demi-god.

“Seems to me the only thing this group ever accomplished was to give a couple hundred thousand dollars to Pierce’s National Alliance and kill one obnoxious media jew.”

Their stated goal was not to win the revolution, but to spark one. Maybe if it hadn’t been for that alleged couple hundred thousand dollars Dr. Pierce’s National Alliance might not have had the resources to influence people like Mr. Linder or Mr. Roper or countless scores of others. I would say that was a sizeable accomplishment from that group of “bank robbers.”

“We all want the same thing, for CHRIST’S SAKE! A nigger-free, jew-free, mud-free Aryan society with ample lebensraüm.”

That’s not likely to happen if we create an atmosphere that tolerates rats. Mr. Brooks, you are Mr. Linder’s friend. If you are truly his friend then you should try and convince him his actions are unconscionable. Friends don’t let friends drive drunk, friends don’t let friends watch MTV, and friends don’t let friends consort with federal snitches.

Ben Vinyard

"Friends don’t let friends drive drunk, friends don’t let friends watch MTV, and friends don’t let friends consort with federal snitches."

If anyone on this forum really loves Alex and cares about his future there needs to be an intervention, Perhaps he will listen to those who know him best and only have his best interests at heart. Everybody makes mistakes and some are forgivable, if the sinner is truly repentant. Providing Alex has not informed on fellow racialists he sohuld be given the opportunity to change his wicked ways.

What did he testify against those guys with?

With a Bible in one hand and a handful of Federal Witness Protection Program money in the other.

I know Pastor Butler was too nice a guy, and took people in who caused him nothing but legal troubles.

You make a good point about Pastor Butler. He had a heart three sizes too big. If he had something bad to say about someone then I believe him.

Ben Vinyard

Well I can't say that I am not surprised that you would disagree with us on this Rich. The only thing I would like to point out to you though Rich is this. Mr. Glen Miller not only testified against the Order he also testified against men who were completely legal. He testified against Richard Butler. He tesitified against Louis Beam. He testified against at least three other people who had nothing to do with the Order and probably did'nt even know it existed. Glen Miller claims he testified because the Order ratted him out first. OK lets assume this is true, what about all the people who did'nt rat on him, which was all of the above legal men?? Glen Miller claims his testimony never put anyone in jail but Louis Beam sat in jail during all of the sedition trials. Pastor Butler spent some time in jail and was forced to relocate to Fort Smith Arkansas during the whole trial. I do not understand how you can resonably say we should let this mans actions go because he was only after all "testifying against a gang of criminals." That just is'nt the case Rich and the fact of the matter is that it is too risky to assume that if Glenn Miller was'nt put under the same pressure by the goverment again he would'nt tesify against you,me or anybody else.

Chris Quimby
White Revolution Membership Coordinator

What exactly did GM testify about sedition, WR? You know damn well he didn't know a damn thing about any sedition, that there was no sedition, and that all were acquitted. He sat there as part of his plea deal, that's all. Otherwise he'd have gone to jail for life. You'd have done the same damn thing, and you know it. So would Dr. Pierce if the punks had ratted him out too after giving him money. Anyone with any sense would have. Were he here, he could defend himself. That's why you had to ban him and delete all his posts, right?

WR, when you are ready to go up against GM one on one, then you'll have credibility. Until then, quit yapping about what GM did or didn't do.

He sat there as part of his plea deal, that's all. Otherwise he'd have gone to jail for life. You'd have done the same damn thing, and you know it. So would Dr. Pierce if the punks had ratted him out too after giving him money. Anyone with any sense would have.

Please don't project your personal cowardice on your moral superiors. It has been duly noted that you would testify against others in a heartbeat to save your own skin because "anyone with any sense would."

Ben Vinyard

How does that justify for one second testifying against Richard Scutari, Louis Beam, Pastor Butler or Robert Miles?

Ben Vinyard

How does your perception of the 20 years-passed actions of one poster justify stealing from someone like Alex? When did theft become more honorable than being a snitch? Especially unbanning Norcal, everyone here knows he wasn't banned for speaking out against Miller. He was banned for doing something very specific that Alex asked him not to do, which was flame Miller on one thread in the Civil Forum. Unbanning him was sort of like a cyber-slap in the face. If ya'll didn't want to be associated with VNNF anymore, fine, but why steal it and delete posts, etc? A lot of us are only here for Alex, callus "Linderites" or whatever, but we won't be forgetting this anytime soon. All this has done is cause mistrust among different groups who otherwise had no hard feelings toward each other.

You need to change out that bong water. The resin is rotting and it smells like a dirty bog. No need to waste the resin, just dry it out and fire it up in the bowl like fresh budz. Dude!

He's Lance, incognito.

How does your perception of the 20 years-passed actions of one poster justify stealing from someone like Alex? When did theft become more honorable than being a snitch? Especially unbanning Norcal, everyone here knows he wasn't banned for speaking out against Miller. He was banned for doing something very specific that Alex asked him not to do, which was flame Miller on one thread in the Civil Forum. Unbanning him was sort of like a cyber-slap in the face. If ya'll didn't want to be associated with VNNF anymore, fine, but why steal it and delete posts, etc? A lot of us are only here for Alex, callus "Linderites" or whatever, but we won't be forgetting this anytime soon. All this has done is cause mistrust among different groups who otherwise had no hard feelings toward each other.

Good points.

Please don't project your personal cowardice on your moral superiors. It has been duly noted that you would testify against others in a heartbeat to save your own skin because "anyone with any sense would."

Ben Vinyard

Benyamin,

What exactly did GM testify about sedition, WR? You know damn well he didn't know a damn thing about any sedition, that there was no sedition, and that all were acquitted... Were he here, he could defend himself. That's why you had to ban him and delete all his posts, right?

WR, when you are ready to go up against GM one on one, then you'll have credibility. Until then, quit yapping about what GM did or didn't do.

"§You will say no word about a comrade that you cannot say to his face. If you do so, you destroy the community and injure your honor and that of the other. You become dishonest. §You would not think of stealing ten pfennig from a comrade. How trivial that is when compared to stealing honor from someone who is unable to defend himself? Compared to that, the thief one puts in prison has committed but a small offense. Possessions are of less value than honor. A thief has more honor than a slanderer."

This intervention was done by the owners and administrators of the VNN Forum, for the good of the Forum. It wasn't theft. The fact that some moderators were unmoderated and some posts deleted was nothing more dramatic than what is done by other owners and administrators at other message boards every day, whatever your emotional reaction to it might be.

Hey, if you're determined to remain loyal to ZOG witnesses and informants, and to those who remain loyal to them, then let me reiterate that we WANT to have people never forget that we are not in that boat. When Alex's guy gets done transferring everything over, you won't find us posting on the new VNN Forum, any more than we post on the One Peoples Project forum, where they also encourage former White Nationalists to inform on and turn ZOG witness against other White Nationalists. If Glenn Miller or Alex Linder or Darrell Lamont Jenkins or whomever call us "cowards" for not debating or attempting to reason with traitors and informants, that's fine by us.

In the meantime, while the migration is taking place and until your moderator status is returned by Miller and Linder, perhaps you can fill the empty void in your life by doing something equally constructive, such as lobbying for Luther Gray to be readmitted to the N.A, or hawking George Eric Hawthorne's new album.

Best Regards,

Billy

Vinyard, I've been a bastard (I think it was warranted, but nonetheless..), but can I ask what happen to the non-Order members at the sedition trials that Miller testified at? I'm 20 years old, so I was like 5 or 6 when all this was going down, and I'm relatively new to WN compared to a lot of people here, so please be patient with my questions. The Order members were fucked, testimony or not, we all know that. ZOG wanted them gone, they were gonna be gone even if they gave no money at all away. I'm talking Butler and the rest. Seems to me they spent a little time in jail, while Glenn did 6 years if I'm not mistaken. Can you give me an example of something that happened as a direct result of Miller's testimony? I don't see what bad can come out of testifying against someone who is completely legal (after all, what can they get in trouble with?), especially if it saves your ass from life inprisonment (worse than a death sentence, IMO).

The reason I'm saying all this, is we all have (or we're SUPPOSED to have) freedom of association. Personally, I don't think I'll ever fully trust Miller, and I'll act accordingly by not revealing info to him. I'll order my tabloids and send my cartoons to Linder. I don't think this is worth causing an even bigger divide in the racial cause. And you gotta admit, Miller is very active, and his enthusiasm is contagious.

As far as Butler goes; yeah he was a great man. One of the few Christian leaders I respect. At least he died peacefully, and he stayed true till the end.

Please don't project your personal cowardice on your moral superiors. It has been duly noted that you would testify against others in a heartbeat to save your own skin because "anyone with any sense would."

Ben Vinyard