Just to clear this up--- I'm not going to do that, and have no intention of doing that. Never have. I was just making a point.

-Tom

Maybe I should move this thread to the "Civil Forum" so that I can purge it of any opposition to our stance and then ban the people that disagree. That's pretty much what was done, which is why I unbanned Norcal. That's bullshit.
You don't agree with what we did. How would you feel if I moved this thread to the civil forum so that I could delete your posts in this thread and then ban you? Sound fair?

-Tom

Originally Posted by Steve B
Are you suggesting that there is something in the tabloid that is illegal??????

No, he's suggesting that Matt Hale didn't do anything illegal either! When you have continuing contacts and relationships with ZOG informants, the Matt Hale case shows that even if you are completely legal, ZOG and the informant can completely fabricate charges out of thin air. With an urban, jewed, negrified jury, whether in Chicago or (as would be in Alex's case) St. Louis, even the most silly, unfounded, baseless and outright false charges can stick.

John

Thankyou John, I was able to discern the meaning of Vinyards reply in spite of the flawed logic.

RE: August Sutter

Can you get through one single post without mentioning my name? Then you call me a coward while you sit terrified of me and you even admitted it. I give my real name, state and town but you want to learn more about me. Why not come up to Princeton WVA and visit me if you are so interested in me.

Why not at least give us your real name or address something to prove you are not a sniveling coward.

BTW you didn’t even give your real address when you ordered the tabloid you are such a coward you got a po box in the next town to receive the thing. You are truly pathetic and will never do anything more than make cyber insults.

Really retard? You know what address my Tabloids came to? You mean Miller the man you cannot contact by phone gave you this information retard?
Point in fact they came right to my house you drooling wanker. Princeton West Virginia? There is no "Sean Martin" in Princeton West Virginia. There is no "Sean Martin" period. Go back to your fetid, urine stained mattress in your mobile home and return to dreaming about getting laid for the first time.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Miller to me was one of the most despicable,disgusting traitors that ever lived.Even worse than Martinez.As a leader and able to mobilize 1000men to action on a moments notice and turned turkey on his own men.kind of like when a general leeds an army say 2 or 3 hundred thousand men even after the war they'll follow their general to the grave.thats might be why general pattion died in a mysterious car wreck because he had promised to take back this country for white americans and he had badmouthed the jews.
well,lets say Miller was kinda like the oppsite of patton,turned traitor and 1000 men lost hope and many went to prison as well.

anybody who takes sides or associates in any way with the likes of racetraitor scum like glen miller have gotta be out bring us all down.kinda like what happened in south afrika where most everybody and ther brother in law belonged to some kinda oppisition group(AWB,VF,etc) when in fact the treacherous goverment would put agents in charge of setting up oppisition groups and then giving them funding.then they would have their oppisition group do something illegal and get caught or make the group look bad and destroy their credibility.if the whites in SA could have united as one they would have certainly driven the traitors and monkies back into the jungles instead of bieing divided into numerous groups infighting and badmouthing eachothers organization.

For what it's worth, I spoke to Sean recently via telephone. I don't know if Sean's his real name or not, but he did indeed seem like a very personable fellow whose heart is in the right place. I've invited him to meet with me the next time he's in the area.

-Tom

Really retard? You know what address my Tabloids came to? You mean Miller the man you cannot contact by phone gave you this information retard?
Point in fact they came right to my house you drooling wanker. Princeton West Virginia? There is no "Sean Martin" in Princeton West Virginia. There is no "Sean Martin" period. Go back to your fetid, urine stained mattress in your mobile home and return to dreaming about getting laid for the first time.

Vinyard, I've been a bastard (I think it was warranted, but nonetheless..), but can I ask what happen to the non-Order members at the sedition trials that Miller testified at? I'm 20 years old, so I was like 5 or 6 when all this was going down, and I'm relatively new to WN compared to a lot of people here, so please be patient with my questions. The Order members were fucked, testimony or not, we all know that. ZOG wanted them gone, they were gonna be gone even if they gave no money at all away. I'm talking Butler and the rest. Seems to me they spent a little time in jail, while Glenn did 6 years if I'm not mistaken. Can you give me an example of something that happened as a direct result of Miller's testimony? I don't see what bad can come out of testifying against someone who is completely legal (after all, what can they get in trouble with?), especially if it saves your ass from life inprisonment (worse than a death sentence, IMO).

The reason I'm saying all this, is we all have (or we're SUPPOSED to have) freedom of association. Personally, I don't think I'll ever fully trust Miller, and I'll act accordingly by not revealing info to him. I'll order my tabloids and send my cartoons to Linder. I don't think this is worth causing an even bigger divide in the racial cause. And you gotta admit, Miller is very active, and his enthusiasm is contagious.

As far as Butler goes]

SheerTerror,

Thank you for your reasonable reply. If I took a gun and started shooting at your family members, would you come after me? My guess is that, yes, you would. If I told you, “Name just one family member that was harmed as a direct result of my actions,” would you say, “You’ve got a point, Ben. I’m glad I listened to your side of the story.” The men at Ft. Smith were found innocent, but not for want of trying. By testifying for the prosecution Miller deliberately acted to save his own skin and put the lives of fellow Whites, who had neither ratted on him nor testified against him, in jeopardy. Others have already responded to your post and put it in better words than I can:

From FolkChristian:

“If it wasn't for Miller's testimony the Fort Smith, Soviet-style, ZOG show trial wouldn't have happened. Good men like Louis Beam, and Pastors Butler and Miles among others were forced into a position that could have incurred in imprisonment for merely speaking words in favor of our folk. If Miller could do it to them, then he could do it to any one of us who speak in the defense of our people. How long before Ellison and Gayman make an appearance?”

From irishjaysbiceps (twin brother of Irishjaywithaberet):

“Miller was in the Witness Protection program. You don't get into the program because your testimony is worthless.

Once a rat, always a rat.”

Ben Vinyard

 

Benyamin,

"§You will say no word about a comrade that you cannot say to his face. If you do so, you destroy the community and injure your honor and that of the other. You become dishonest. §You would not think of stealing ten pfennig from a comrade. How trivial that is when compared to stealing honor from someone who is unable to defend himself? Compared to that, the thief one puts in prison has committed but a small offense. Possessions are of less value than honor. A thief has more honor than a slanderer."

JB,

Miller is not a comrade. Why don’t you write a letter to the man who wrote that quote and ask him what his opinion is? While you’re at it, why don’t you tell him about your confession on this forum that you would readily testify against fellow Whites because “anyone with any sense would.” I imagine it will court about as much favor with him as it did with the forum readers.

Ben Vinyard

I have recruited Glenn Miller to run for US Senate

Since I have reserved running for governor of Missouri as an open White Nationalist for myself, I needed to find someone to run for US Senate on the Republican-racialist ballot.

After a good deal of soul-searching and some desperation, I decided to ask Frazier Glenn Miller, the former head of the White Patriot Party or something like that, to run for that office and for him to find some of his Klan friends to run for office as Democrats, or whatever is to a tactical political advantage.

Frazier Glenn Miller took $200,000 from The Order, turned on David Lane, became a Federal Informant, and lied his ass off against Louis Beam, Richard Butler, David Lane and others at the 1987-88 Ft. Smith Sedition Trial. Miller condones himself by saying that he was such an obvious liar and perjurer that nobody in their right mind on the jury believed a single thing he said and that is why nobody he testified against ever went to prison.

I have a great problem with that. I printed part of his 'comeback' book with the grudging permission of Louis Beam because I wanted to show how ZOG uses weak, cowardly people and turns them, and so Revolution isn't meant for the weak-willed or naturally cowardly. Miller in effect admits in Chapter 3 of his book that he ran out and abandoned his friends and allies at the Greensboro NC communist shootout in 1979 or so. Miller was excellent at organizing political events -- but as a Movement we should have had a vetting process to make sure that physical and moral cowards never were placed in combat positions.

http://www.martinlindstedt.org/gm_index.html

However, Miller was good at political organizing, getting 300 White men dressed in BDUs marching in formation in Carolina in the mid-80s. And Miller has the money -- I am not asking from where -- to pay a $200 filing fee to run for office. Insofar as I know of, Miller meets the residency and age requirements for running for US Senate.

Miller has also expressed an interest in opening up his own WWW page and actually spending money for content.

Therefore, I have decided to use Miller's talents and money to political ends, and to keep an eye on him. I am not asking anyone to have anything to do with him; his function is to run his own campaign for US Senate funded by his own money. He has no more chance of beating Bullshit-Kit Bond in the August 2004 Republican Party than I do of beating RuntBlunt for governor. If anyone wants to make fun of him being a coward and a traitor, then I'll say that he is no worse than the ordinary run-of-the-swill Repubican politician.

Glenn Miller has turned on his own before and therefore I don't want any 'underground squirrels' talking about doing anythang 'ill-eagle' to him or to me. As said before, I'll be watching him like a hawk. I told him that when he ran that he could rail about them spawn-of-Satan jews to every jewspaper outlet giving him free publicity all that he wants. I couldn't care less if he makes a fool out of himself. It was when Glenn Miller decided to play Army against ZOG that he screwed the pooch in the 80's. If he has enough money to pay 185 ZOG-bux to the Aurora weekly jewspaper for an ad railing about jews, then he has $200 to pay for a filing fee and $500 for a good WWW page, plus whatever is needed to get a few good 'ol boys interested in the local county political process.

Next week I intend to drive up in caravan to Jefferson City and do the filing of any and every warm racist body I can find.

Anyone else want to file on either Republican, Democrat, or LibberToon primary ballots in Missouri for either a statewide or county office before the filing deadline at 4:30 p.m. March 30, 2004, please get in contact with me. I know how to file paperwork before the 'Ethics Committee' to where none of you need to file much in the way of paperwork. I really could use a few ZOGUS kongress-kritters. Nobody needs to file any campaign-finance paperwork for a federal office if they get or spend less than $5000. I'll even help token-niggers from the St. Louis 1st Congressional District if a White man will vouch for them.

END

What a hypocrite and outright bum, lol.

“If it wasn't for Miller's testimony the Fort Smith, Soviet-style, ZOG show trial wouldn't have happened.

Well, I keep coming back to the same question: how did the Feds learn about the Miller matter in the first place? That question becomes more key the longer I ponder it.

In other words, it's a which-came-first-the-chicken-or-the-egg? matter.

Let the anti-Miller folks give us the details.

----

JB,

Miller is not a comrade. Why don’t you write a letter to the man who wrote that quote and ask him what his opinion is? While you’re at it, why don’t you tell him about your confession on this forum that you would readily testify against fellow Whites because “anyone with any sense would.” I imagine it will court about as much favor with him as it did with the forum readers.

Ben Vinyard

Benyamin,

That's a quote from an old German book from the thirties, and of course 'comrade' refers to folk-comrade, fellow white, not your interpretation of who is and isn't a comrade. The essence of the quote is not to say a thing about a man you won't say to his face.

I said that after the Order rolled over on GM and guaranteed him life behind bars, he had the choice to make a deal that would harm no one, or to go to jail forever. He made the right and honorable choice, and no one ever spent a day in jail on account of him, according to him. I've seen no one dispute him. I don't know all the details of the Ft. smith sedition trial, but GM says he knew nothing about any sedition, there was no sedition, and no one was convicted of any sedition. He's willing to put his word up against anyone's, you guys aren't. That says a lot in itself. Let's get all the facts out.

Quite clearly, if it is shown Miller tried to get a bunch of innocent whites locked up who never harmed him -- genuinely tried to get them locked up by testifying falsely -- we'd all have to reconsider our position. But you haven't shown that, and won't take Miller on man-to-man. So you slander, call his honor into question while denying the right to reply. That's dishonorable. I know Glenn's record, I know his history, I know his side of the story. I've never seen him lie or anyone show that he lied.

I want to see one of you say straight out "I would choose life imprisonment even if making a deal would harm no one and would allow me to devote the rest of my life to my people, to activism, etc." - as Glenn has. Say that and see how many laugh at you. If you were forced into a position where your only two options were life imprisonment, and testifying to facts already known that would harm not a soul, which would preserve your freedom and life rather than end it, tell me you would choose to serve life in jail. I don't believe you're sincere, I don't believe you are motivated by what you claim to be motivated by.

I think you guys are acting on self-interest, worried about your standing with 'the movement' crowd you cater to, and are not at all interested in the truth or what is right. I think you're worried about losing support from the choir, and so had to act as you did. I think that's pathetic.

Bring Miller on, face him squarely, and let's get to the bottom of this, so we can all make our decisions on where GM belongs. There are a lot of unanswered questions. The issue is not cut and dried. Will Williams, Alex Linder and others say GM has nothing to apologize for. These guys are immensely above your stature, and we know their motives and character are pure. So are mine. When you pretend the issue is clear cut, you lie, and you slander these men and myself and the rest of us as 'traitors.' That doesn't reflect good upon you. And when you seize another man's website, a man greatly your superior, a man who takes our task seriously and doesn't just cater to movement hobbyists and rabble, who has got a real, extroverted active project going with lots of support, and ban the one guy who knows the facts about this case before spouting all this 'traitor' BS, you show yourself to be both insincere and unconfident in your position.

You guys - norcal, draco, others - talk about miller's pushy 'with us or against us' attitude, which is just good-natured, if flawed, encouragement, but in truth it's the freaks screaming 'traitor!' at anyone who disagrees with them or thinks the issue is perhaps a bit more nuanced than they let on, who imply that we all need to be hanged, they're the ones with that attitude.

You guys talk about censorship and banning and such, yet it's your side doing the banning and the deleting and the censorship and the destruction of other's property and the hiding behind 'words.'

I know many of you are unable to think, but you won't fail to notice the similarity in in screaming 'traitor' and 'rat' and 'informant' as a form of argument, and calling the iraqi insurgents 'terrorists' as if that settled the issue. It shows an obsession with and acceptance of words at face value and an inability to discern the real realities behind them. I noticed this most starkly with DaughterofScotland. Well, that's our women, and our lemmings. But I'd expect more from some of you...

9 out of 10 of you, admit it, are just uncomfortable with Miller because he was promoting real world activism. This doesn't apply to WR, but it does apply to Georgie, AK, Ottoremer, norcal, draco and others. The 'informant' pretext is just a convenient excuse, one of many.

To sum up, the only way to get all the facts out is an open discussion, which we had until 4 days ago. That open discussion - which was revealing the facts - was ended, and the record of it erased, by the WR gang. Why?

Now go ahead, call me a traitor.

Well, I keep coming back to the same question: how did the Feds learn about the Miller matter in the first place? That question becomes more key the longer I ponder it.

In other words, it's a which-came-first-the-chicken-or-the-egg? matter.

Let the anti-Miller folks give us the details.

----

Well Franco, either Miller walked into FBI headquarters and confessed or someone or someones in the Order ratted him out.

Confusing itz!

For what it's worth, I spoke to Sean recently via telephone. I don't know if Sean's his real name or not, but he did indeed seem like a very personable fellow whose heart is in the right place. I've invited him to meet with me the next time he's in the area.

-Tom

Oh no. We'll never hear the end of that.

Benyamin,

Ah, the Jewish spelling of Benjamin. How quaint. That's not an inference, is it now?

That's a quote from an old German book from the thirties, and of course 'comrade' refers to folk-comrade, fellow white, not your interpretation of who is and isn't a comrade. The essence of the quote is not to say a thing about a man you won't say to his face.

The Great Man would never call "fellow white" Traitor Claus von Stauffenberg a "Volksgenosse" (Folk Comrade).

Likewise, no Aryan would call Traitor Glenn Miller a Folk Comrade.

As i stated before Louis Beam spent the entire sedition trial in jail with no bond. Richard Butler spent I beleive several weeks in jail and was forced to relocate to Fort Smith Arkansas during the remainder of the trial. Maybe not as a direct result of Millers Testimony but Miller was there to testify against legal men anyways. Was it anything permanent, no?? Still legal and honest men had to suffer because of informants like Miller. If someone does'nt set a precedent on rats then the fight for White Survival is over because our ranks will be filled with the scum.Oh and Phantasm if it was such common knowledge then why was Miller needed to testify at all??

Chris Quimby
WRMC

That is EXACTLY what I've been asking the “Order” fans for the last two weeks!

Apparently... its very easy to “rubber stamp” Glenn Miller for testifying about general information before going into witness protection. This has the added benefit of giving WR the pretense of “moral authority.”

ROFL !

Yeah, that and have a hand in making some of the best pieces of propaganda to hit this thing in a long, long time. 100,000 CDs that are both visually and audibly appealing to kids, put in kids hand's, at no profit.

-Tom

Yeh Tom, Always flying with accusations anytime anybody posts a question that the WR secret squirrel society members like you don't like. You didn't like my questions, so you began put downs. You still haven't answered as to why the losers of 20 years ago are somehow relavent to today.

You lobbed the name calling my way first. That's always a sign that you haven't got what it takes to answer the questions asked. I've still haven't heard any good answers from you. And I've held my tongue about WR also, because you need no help from me to show your true incompetence. Once again, WR has snatched defeat out of the jaws of victory.

Maybe I wore blue boots but at least I've never changed my racial message. I never went crying like a woman when the membership list turned up in various and sundry places. I've never gone from hard to soft and back to hard again like you and the rest of the squirrels.

I wish it were a choice between folks like you and the traitors like Miller. Hell, at least with a traitor, there's at least some type of hope of getting something useful out of him. But that's not possible with WR, because the message keeps going soft, like you can't get it up, and all of that. If it were a hard message like I preach, the feds would be too afraid of me turning a traitor like Miller.

I think instead of anger at VNN, I believe it's anger that's the true emotion felt by WR, because WR just doesn't have what it takes to turn a traitor and make him a productive White citizen once more. You or a traitor? I pick the traitor! You Tom, on the other hand, are just plain incompetent. There's nothing that can be done with a loser like you. I think the anger WR feels is just the feeling of incompetence knowing you can never make a traitor productive like Alex did.

As far as profit, I've never profitted from cds, but then again, folks don't have to wonder whether I've had to water down my message in order to make a sale. And if the message was sufficiently strong, folks won't have to distribute cds "at no profit" or whatever that means.