Point noted.

Now, who told the Feds about Miller? Please answer that.

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Franco, let's just assume for the sake of arguement that Bruce Pierce of the Order ratted on Miller, because I think that is what you are trying to get at. How does Bruce Pierce ratting on Miller justify Miller ratting on Richard Scutari? Please answer that.

Ben Vinyard

Man I wish Glen Miller did wear spray painted Blue Boots it would be easier to get him out of the movement that way. But boy had he been wearing blue boots, a phany pack and spandex shorts woooo man there would be no doubt in ayones mind that he had to go.

You forgot all about the blue boots. Has anyone ever seen Glen Miller in blue boots? I think this is relevant and I want an answer.

I am still curious as to any proof someone might have that the Order rolled over on Glen Miller. I mean why would they rat on Glen Miller and not Dr. Pierce? What did they have to gain from rolling on him when nearly all the loyal Order members are still sitting in jail to this very day and will do so till the day they die. I think what it amounts to is Glen Miller can tell a good story and blame it on a bunch of guys sitting behind bars who have a bit of trouble defending themselves here in the internet world. WHy would the goverment need Millers testimony if it was common knowledge and did'nt hurt anybody, that does'nt make sense??? Actually you are wrong on Miller putting his word up against anyones and as soon as we can locate Louis Beam I will bet my bottom dollar Louis Beam will set this record straight as far as the sedition trial goes.

Since when does it matter whether he testified falesely or not??? I don't care if he was telling the truth and it got people put away that still makes him a rat trying to save his own ass because he was stupid enough to take $200,000 in stolen money. Another question I would like to ask is this,what makes you think Glenn Miller would have spent life in prison for accepting stolen money??? Scutari made the allegation that Miller was picked up in his home with his two liutenants, who he also testified against, with fully automatic weapons. Perhaps maybe Miller testified to save his ass against those gun charges and that was his screw up not the Orders.

I would like to say I would do the right and honorable thing and keep my mouth shut but then again no one really knows what they will do in a situation like that. I know one thing for sure though I would'nt testify against everyone and there mom in the movement and then come crawling back 20 years later making up bullshit excuses for my treason. Then try wroming my way back into the movement even though the majority of the movement does'nt want me back.

No we are acting on the moral ground that you don't testify against fellow whites and trying to set a precedent so that all rats know once you go rat you can never come back. I think it is pathetic that you defend a man who fathered a nonwhite child and testified in court to save his skin.

It has already been done. He has had months to answer the allegations and it looks like the majority of the people have made their decision. Those guys that are supposedly immensly above our stature can then go sit on the we support federal rats side of the fence while the rest of us finish building this fence so that way there is a clear difference between us and you. You guys are on the lets welcome all rats side of the fence and we are on the side that sets out the rat traps to keep the fuckers away. Next thing you know you will be trying to convince us TJ Leyden is a good guy and we should welcome him back with open arms.

There is a old saying that has probably been said on here a thousand time, When you lay down with dogs you get fleas.

Yeah and Linder never banned Norcal or dean Roberts or probably a whole slew of other people I don't know about. You are right about one thing though Linder never hid behind words he basically ignored the issuse all together.

Are you kidding me Miller tells you a great story and you beleive him. You took his words at face value because they sounded good to you. You use the scape goat that all of us would testify under the same circumstances. You know what if I testified under those circumstances I would expect people to look down on me and shun me for it.

I don't think that is the case but you can beleive whatever you wish here in the internet world.

The facts have been layed out for what two or three months now. I'll tell you what why don't we just clear all this up completely and you go and get a copy of the court documents. I am sure this would clear up just about and conceived question and convince every last person where we need to stand on Miller.

Obviously order rats -- including Bruce Pierce according to news clippings GM posted from '85 -- are the ones who led the feds to him in the first place by confessing to giving him the money. Obviously Miller didn't turn himself in.

I wasn't wrong about Miller putting his word against anyone's. You're the ones who won't face him. You can make an excuse you like, but it's just plain cowardly. You didn't destroy his posts for nothing.

Glenn says he was facing life for the associated crimes of accepting 200,000 stolen money and hiding out David Lane. Lane approached Miller, and Miller hid him out. According to GM Lane himself attempted to make a deal with the feds. He produced a quote from a standard book on the Order fiasco, claiming this. These guys thought they were ultra-important, I don't doubt they would divulge information on the 'little guys' like Miller to protect themselves. Lane would have to confirm that or deny it.

You know that the government would have been just as interested, if not more interested, in breaking up the legal, above-ground organizations who received Order money, like Miller's and Pierce's, than in merely convicting the Order members themselves.

Question: are there any Order members who didn't make deals or try to make deals to protect themselves? So far I'm only aware of Scuttari.

I'm amazed that you haven't read Miller's own account, and yet want to argue this subject. "Glenn Miller Responds to M. Lindset," in the sub-forum of the Activism forum. Just read that thread and you'll see where a lot of us are coming from. If you don't, you show your non-interest in the truth. We are all on the same side here, right? So then this can be resolved by discussion.

Tell me what GM could have testified to about these guys besides the fact of his receiving stolen money, which they themselves exposed to the feds to begin with. When the government makes a case, they want as many witnesses as they can get, even if some of the testimony is redundant and superfluous. Miller could only have testified to what he himself knew, and what had already been established by numerous other witnesses.

The question I asked was: if you had to choose between life imprisonment or a plea deal that harmed no one, what would it be? Life in jail or a free life of service to your people? Show me how Miller's testimony harmed a soul and I'll be on your side. How did Miller's testimony put anyone in jail, either from the Order or from the acquitted defendants in the sedition trial? You can't, because none did. Show me, and I'll be on your side.

As for Miller's mixed race kid, this is just disingenuous. Are you saying that someone who made such a mistake has no right to change his mind down the road and make up for it? That some kid stationed in the Pacific fathered a nonwhite kid before ever becoming a WN is none of my business. I don't approve of it, but it's just not my business. That's a matter of Glenn Miller and his conscience. The guy has what, 5 white kids? Get off your high horse.

You keep operating on the premise that what GM did was wrong. You haven't shown this. I say he was rolled over on by a bunch of rats and made the only decision available to him, which harmed no one. You haven't disputed this, just repeated 'rat' 'rat' 'rat.' That's not honest.

And I'll say again: neither you nor Vinyard nor Roper will take him on. Prove me wrong. And that's really all you have to do... show that he did something wrong, something dishonorable, and I and Linder and Will Williams will be with you. So will Stan Stirkowski and HoaxThis and Derrick Keurkbloom and SheerTerror and Edberg and SteveB and bizmark and Rich Brooks, et al. All honest, intelligent and honorable white men. And all of those I mentioned serious, down to earth, out-door activists, not hobbyist losers who take your side only because they don't like Miller's attempts to get them off their asses.

I never said I believe Miller, only that in all the months he's been on here no one has refuted anything he's said, including you fellows. And your act of deleting his posts only shows your impotence to do so.

About your suggestion that I obtain the court documents - the burden of proof isn't on me. You guys are making the charge and denying GM the right to respond. And again, that speaks volumes.

I'm perfectly happy to cut GM the moment it's shown he behaved dishonorably at any time. As for whether he can print a newspaper for us, that's an entirely separate question.

...this is'nt even about the Order. This is about a rat who is worming his way back into the ranks of the movement. This is about setting a precedent against people who would rather save their own ass when the going gets tough...

This is exactly right. I personally have nothing against Glen Miller, don't even know the man. The point is that ANYONE who testifies against fellow patriots forfeits any trust EVER again from their former comrades. It has to be this way. Zog puts a hell of a lot of pressure on people to turn traitor. We must let it be known that there is consequences for taking the easy way out. My 2 cents.

Your integrity gets called into question because you are INSANE and when a INSANE person starts frothing at the mouth about this or that or that he talks to god well you just have to point that out to people.

And my integrity gets called into question just because I asked the question of why this traitor was so important. It's not as if Alex had nominated him for some kind of medal of honor. As I understand it, he was simply helping Alex get the good work of the race done - pure and simple.

Franco, let's just assume for the sake of arguement that Bruce Pierce of the Order ratted on Miller, because I think that is what you are trying to get at. How does Bruce Pierce ratting on Miller justify Miller ratting on Richard Scutari? Please answer that.

Ben Vinyard

Question: would Miller have ever ratted if not for Pierce? It's an honest question. [In fact, as time marches on, as I have said before, the question pops into my mind more and more].

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Are you fucking kidding me when a girl who we will call D. threw them in the trash, she was trying to save you some ridicule,while house sitting for you you went and dug the boots back out.

Okay, I wore blue boots, they looked like hell, and I'm not going to be invited to the fashion ball. The laughter alone caused me to get rid of them.

LMWAO thank you for making what little is left of my day a little better.

Trust me on this one. Stop posting. And stay away from kids.

Franco, let's just assume for the sake of arguement that Bruce Pierce of the Order ratted on Miller, because I think that is what you are trying to get at. How does Bruce Pierce ratting on Miller justify Miller ratting on Richard Scutari? Please answer that.

Ben Vinyard

In answer to your question, it would not justify that. But a better question is noted in my other post just now. See my newest post.

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Really what about at Waffle house Robert when you sat in the car. Hell even the women were in the mellee on that one. WHat about the incident at the liquor store. Albeit it was a rather stupid thing to be done but you did'nt have to come busting up in my house acting like someone was just murdered.

No, this is about finding some lame excuse to put the pressure on Alex. Only Alex didn't go for it.

As far as York, you were never there. There was not an incident that required saving my ass individually. You are quite a bit younger than me, so it is true that I don't look for physical confrontations.

...
I think you guys are acting on self-interest, worried about your standing with 'the movement' crowd you cater to, and are not at all interested in the truth or what is right. I think you're worried about losing support from the choir, and so had to act as you did. I think that's pathetic.

Bring Miller on, face him squarely, and let's get to the bottom of this, so we can all make our decisions on where GM belongs. There are a lot of unanswered questions.
...

That is my position as well.
Glenn Miller had laid his cards on the table for a solid month. I know... because I was one of the members that ended up asking questions. Those questions were immediately answered out in the open. That is of course... before the SS Shock Troops kicked in the door and destroyed all the evidence.

I think its interesting that ZOG routinely destroys all evidence whenever there is a shootout involving federal authorities. HHMM...White Revolution destroys evidence also...

COINCIDENCE?

'Originally Posted by JizmButt112, Sodomite'

Real constructive norcal. Since you've been here you've been vulgar, disingenuous, and disgusting in general.

Let us know when you grow up... we can use another adult.

...
Oh and Phantasm if it was such common knowledge then why was Miller needed to testify at all??
...

C'mon Chris... prosecutors parade every single witness they can get their hands on in front of a jury... whether there is “damaging” testimony or not. Glenn Miller's testimony... in the matter regarding the Order ...was general at best. How could it be otherwise? He was not engaged in any “regular or routine” illegal activities with the Order.

From what I gather from this article Glen Miller was going to do the same thing the Order was and therefore was conducting himself illegally. SO why are all these guys taking pot shots at the Order and supporting Miller if Miller was going to do the same thing??? I need to read the article more throughly as I just scanned it over but it looks like the White Patriot Party that was suppose to be legal was'nt that legal.

http://www.skepticfiles.org/mys3/monitor4.htm [near the top]

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From what I gather from this article Glen Miller was going to do the same thing the Order was and therefore was conducting himself illegally. SO why are all these guys taking pot shots at the Order and supporting Miller if Miller was going to do the same thing??? I need to read the article more throughly as I just scanned it over but it looks like the White Patriot Party that was suppose to be legal was'nt that legal.

http://www.skepticfiles.org/mys3/monitor4.htm [near the top]

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"Was" going to do the same thing?? What does that mean? I could say, "well, it looked to me like so-and-so was gonna do such-and-such." That means nothing.

The whole nugget of the matter is this question: "would Miller have talked if not for Pierce?" In other words, would Miller have come forward on his own and said: "hey, Feds, guess what.."? That's the whole nugget.

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I don't have that answer and neither does Miller. The feds are not going to seriously tell Miller who ratted him out. Assuming anyone ratted him out at all. From that article I just scanned it looks like Miller probably incriminated himself in the whole ordeal. The only way anybody will probably get that answer is if either a. the snitch (not miller) admits it or b. the case files to the entire Order trial get opened. But Miller and everyone else blaming it on the entire Order is wrong.

Chris Quimby

Point noted.

Now, who told the Feds about Miller? Please answer that.

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From what I gather from this article Glen Miller was going to do the same thing the Order was and therefore was conducting himself illegally. SO why are all these guys taking pot shots at the Order and supporting Miller if Miller was going to do the same thing??? I need to read the article more throughly as I just scanned it over but it looks like the White Patriot Party that was suppose to be legal was'nt that legal.

http://www.skepticfiles.org/mys3/monitor4.htm [near the top]

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You haven't even read Miller's side. If you don't read Miller's side you're not interested in the truth. Glenn Miller Responds to M. Lindsdet.