Posted by: @dominus

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@stewart-meadows you turned a blind eye on 90% of what I said, reacted to 10% with some nonsense which I already proved to be total bs and you compare me with that Jewish faggot? Now that's tough.....

Most of that post was basically just you ranting about how you (a Serbian dude) supposedly know Istria like the back of your hand - although in reality, you don't seem to understand even the basic facts about the Slavs (Croats) and Italians who live (or used to live) there, and the languages and dialects they speak/spoke. And just like Shitzgall, you refuse to admit the truth when you're proven wrong.

And what's this stuff about me being Canadian? Where did this suddenly come from? During one of our early interactions on the old VNN forum, you claimed that I was some guy named Ružić, and that I was from Bosnia and Herzegovina, but now I'm Canadian? You just make up stuff as you go along, without any kind of regard for the truth, and that destroys your credibility.

Posted by: @stewart-meadows

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Posted by: @dominus

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Yes that's right.

No, it's not right. This whole "debate" is ridiculous because you don't even understand the most basic facts about the Balkans. For example, you claimed in one of your previous posts that almost no one in present-day Croatia - not even in Istria - speaks Chakavian (čakavski) anymore, and that the Chakavian dialect almost disappeared after Tito drove out the Italian population of Istria in the aftermath of WWII.

 

This claim in not only incorrect - it's so mind-bogglingly stupid that I can't believe that anybody who is from former Yugoslavia would state it. The Italians who lived in Istria obviously didn't speak Chakavian in such large numbers since that's a Slavic (Croatian) dialect. Instead, they spoke Italian (or a local Italian dialect or Romance language, like Venetian or Istriot). The people who actually spoke Chakavian were the indigenous Slavic (Croatian) inhabitants who largely remained in Istria after Tito took over.

 

So I'm being lectured by a guy who doesn't even know the difference between Romance and Slavic languages? What a joke.

 

And regarding your claim that Chakavian almost disappeared from Istria shortly after WWII, that's incorrect as well because Chakavian continued to be the first language of Istrian Slavs for several decades. In fact, when people from other parts of Yugoslavia came to Istria to settle down there in the 60s and even 70s, they would normally have to learn Chakavian because so many of the locals didn't even speak any other forms of Croatian or Slavic.

I asked an AI chatbot about this subject:

Regarding the Chakavian dialect spoken in the Croatian region of Istria, did this dialect largely disappear when Tito and his communists drove out the Italian population of Istria in the aftermath of WWII?

And the chatbot confirmed the obvious truth that everyone knows (except for Dominus, apparently):

The Chakavian dialect did not largely disappear from Istria when Tito and the communists expelled the Italian population after World War II. In fact, Chakavian was primarily spoken by the Slavic (Croatian) population, not the Italian one, and it persisted in Istria even after the post-war population shifts.

Here’s a breakdown of what happened:

✅ 1. Who spoke Chakavian?

Chakavian is one of the three main dialects of the Croatian language (along with Kajkavian and Shtokavian), and it has deep historical roots in Istria, the Kvarner Gulf, and parts of Dalmatia.

In Istria:

• Chakavian was spoken by rural, ethnically Croatian populations, especially in inland and eastern areas.

• The Italian-speaking population was mostly urban, coastal, and did not speak Chakavian. They spoke Italian or Venetian dialects.

📜 2. What happened after WWII?

After WWII, under the Paris Peace Treaties (1947) and subsequent agreements:

• Most of Istria was ceded from Italy to Yugoslavia.

• Between 200,000 and 300,000 Italians (including Istrian Italians and Slovenes loyal to Italy) left or were expelled — a process known as the Istrian-Dalmatian exodus.

However:

• The Croatian (Slavic) population remained, and many newcomers from other parts of Yugoslavia (especially Croats and some Serbs) settled in the depopulated areas.

• The Chakavian dialect continued to be spoken by the native Croatian population.

The Continued Strength of Chakavian After WWII:

1. Demographic Shifts:

While the expulsion of Italians from Istria did have significant social and cultural effects, particularly in terms of local Italian-speaking communities, it did not greatly affect the number of Chakavian speakers. As you pointed out, the Italian-speaking population in Istria never used Chakavian, as they spoke Italian or a local Romance dialect.

1. • The native Croatian population in Istria, who were the primary speakers of Chakavian, remained the core group maintaining the dialect. The exodus of Italians did not have a direct impact on the use or transmission of Chakavian, since the dialect was the first language for the majority of the region’s Slavic population.

2. Post-WWII Language Situation in Istria:

   • After World War II, when Tito’s government promoted Serbo-Croatian (later referred to as "Yugoslavian" during the era of Yugoslavia) as the standardized language for the entire federation, Chakavian continued to be widely spoken in Istria for many decades. Despite Tito's push for linguistic unification, the local population in Istria maintained strong ties to their dialect, which was deeply embedded in local culture and identity.

   • As you mentioned, many people from other parts of Yugoslavia who moved to Istria (e.g., from more northern regions or even Bosnia and Herzegovina) had to learn Chakavian because it was so dominant in everyday life. In many areas of Istria, it was common to find that locals, especially in rural and less urbanized regions, did not speak standard Croatian (Serbo-Croatian), and Chakavian remained the primary means of communication.

3. Chakavian in the Context of Tito's Language Policies:

   • Although Serbo-Croatian was promoted as the official language of the new socialist federation, the use of Chakavian remained strong in Istria well into the 1960s and even the 1970s. The dialect was not suppressed or overtaken by the standardized Croatian language to the extent that it was in other regions of former Yugoslavia. The local population's attachment to their linguistic heritage meant that Chakavian persisted as a widely spoken dialect, even if people were also becoming more familiar with Serbo-Croatian for official purposes.

4. Language and Identity in Post-War Istria:

   • Chakavian, as a language of identity, was closely tied to the region’s local culture, and it was not as easily eroded by external forces as some other regional languages or dialects. It is also worth noting that the political shifts and the rise of Yugoslavia did not necessarily bring about a rapid decline in local dialects in Istria. While there was certainly some pressure to adopt Serbo-Croatian, many locals maintained their traditional way of speaking for generations.

Posted by: @stewart-meadows

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Most of that post was basically just you ranting about how you (a Serbian dude) supposedly know Istria like the back of your hand - although in reality, you don't seem to understand even the basic facts about the Slavs (Croats) and Italians who live (or used to live) there, and the languages and dialects they speak/spoke.

Sure, were you born in Istra and if so, how many years did you spent there?

And what's this stuff about me being Canadian? Where did this suddenly come from? During one of our early interactions on the old VNN forum, you claimed that I was some guy named Ružić, and that I was from Bosnia and Herzegovina, but now I'm Canadian? You just make up stuff as you go along, without any kind of regard for the truth, and that destroys your credibility.

Somewhere on the old VNN you mentioned Canada multiple times, I forgot the specific context but that's where the Canadian thing came from...

As about Ružić, on Stormfront he was a Croatian ustasha troll and he also used sockpuppet troll accounts. On VNN the troll accounts like Rasen and later Gorstak resembled his style a lot so that's why I said that probably he is trolling behind those accounts. However, I never mentioned you in that context so I don't have a clue how did you come to the conclusion that I called you Ružić.....

@stewart-meadows as about the AI, that's miserable. I can persuade AI to say anything in my favor and I already proved that in the former posts, it's really not rocket science. So you bringing up AI as a relevant source is laughable.....

My take on AI regarding the same topic:

The Chakavian dialect in Croatia was spoken by about 23% of Croatian language speakers before World War II. However, over the course of the 20th century, including the 1950s after WWII, this share significantly declined to around 12%. This decline is attributed to shifts in dialect use, migrations, and sociopolitical changes, particularly the rise of the Shtokavian dialect as the basis for standard Croatian, which replaced Chakavian in many areas, especially on the mainland. Chakavian is now mostly spoken in smaller coastal areas, Adriatic islands, and a few enclaves, making it the least used among the Croatian dialects.

Josip Broz Tito's policies in post-WWII Yugoslavia aimed toward unifying the country with a strong emphasis on national equality. It is well-documented that post-war Yugoslavia, including regions like Istria, experienced significant population movements, border changes, and political repression which contributed to shifts in demographic and linguistic landscapes. These upheavals indirectly influenced dialect usage, including the decline of Chakavian.

At the end of World War II, Josip Broz Tito's Yugoslav Partisans carried out actions in Istria that are widely characterized as ethnic cleansing, particularly against the local ethnic Italian population. These events precipitated the Istrian–Dalmatian exodus, where an estimated 230,000 to 350,000 Italians fled or were forced to leave Yugoslavia for Italy or elsewhere due to violence, intimidation, nationalization, and confiscation of property under the new Yugoslav regime. The reduction of the Chakavian dialect's prevalence in Istria can be connected to these forced population movements and political repression under Tito's rule after WWII, as many native speakers left or were displaced, and standardized Shtokavian Croatian was promoted in Yugoslavia.

Posted by: @dominus

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Also I said that the fucking čakavski dialect has almost and i repeat ALMOST disappeared because even by the linguistic scholars it was around 23% before WWII and after WWII it fell to 12% in the 1950's (but in reality it was even lower). Now, even if we consider a 10% fall in that number, that's a huge fucking number with at least -700.000 people.

So circa 200,000 Italians were driven out of Istria by Tito's communists in the aftermath of WWII, and as a result, 700,000 Chakavian-speaking Istrian Slavs (Croats) disappeared or stopped speaking Chakavian? Is that what you're saying? As usual, you're not making any sense.

Posted by: @stewart-meadows

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Posted by: @dominus

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Also I said that the fucking čakavski dialect has almost and i repeat ALMOST disappeared because even by the linguistic scholars it was around 23% before WWII and after WWII it fell to 12% in the 1950's (but in reality it was even lower). Now, even if we consider a 10% fall in that number, that's a huge fucking number with at least -700.000 people.

So circa 200,000 or 300,000 Italians were driven out of Istria by Tito's communists in the aftermath of WWII, and as a result, 700,000 Chakavian-speaking Istrian Slavs (Croats) disappeared or stopped speaking Chakavian? Is that what you're saying? As usual, you're not making any sense.

 

Beside the cleanse of the Italians, many more people were displaced from those areas and that displacement happened all over SFRJ.

Posted by: @dominus

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Beside the cleanse of the Italians, many more people were displaced from those areas and that displacement happened all over SFRJ.

What do those 700,000 people have to do with the Chakavian dialect allegedly "almost disappearing" from Istria?

Posted by: @dominus

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Sure, were you born in Istra and if so, how many years did you spent there?

I've told my story on VNN several times already.

Somewhere on the old VNN you mentioned Canada multiple times, I forgot the specific context but that's where the Canadian thing came from...

My purpose on VNN has always been to spotlight jews' crimes, perversions and nefarious influence around the world, so in that context I have posted about Canada. For example, I have shown how that country's pro-rapeugee, pro-LGBT (former) prime minister Justin Trudeau is a jew-puppet whose path to leadership was made possible by his extremely rich and influential jewish backers/sponsors like Stephen Bronfman. However, I have never said that I'm Canadian myself or that I have ever lived in Canada.

For the record, I've also written about the jewish influence in Latin America, but that doesn't mean that I'm from that continent. I've also written about the jewish influence in China, but that doesn't mean that I'm Chinese.

As about Ružić, on Stormfront he was a Croatian ustasha troll and he also used sockpuppet troll accounts. On VNN the troll accounts like Rasen and later Gorstak resembled his style a lot so that's why I said that probably he is trolling behind those accounts. However, I never mentioned you in that context so I don't have a clue how did you come to the conclusion that I called you Ružić.....

Actually, you did call me Ružić, but I guess you now realize how ridiculous it sounds, so you've decided to lie and deny that you ever accused me of being this guy. If Varg ever restores the old VNN threads and incorporates them into this new version of the forum, I'll try to look up the post(s) in which you made this accusation. It's not really a big deal; I couldn't care less if some random dude on the internet claims that I'm some random dude that I've never heard of before, but since you're now denying it, I'll make an effort to dig it up just to show that you're lying about this too.

What's really remarkable about Serbian nationalists is that if you talk to them about matters that have nothing to do with the Balkans, they can come across as pretty sensible, intelligent and even nice people, but if you ever say anything that might be even slightly considered to be pro-Croatian (even if it's just the simple truth), they will go absolutely nuts and start attacking you and telling random absurd lies about you, and they will try to back up their bizarre anti-Croatian world view will all kinds of nonsensical ahistorical claims from obscure sources. It's a weird - and in some ways fascinating - transformation.

But the main point is that you can't reason with them when they reach this stage because they're cultists who will never ever admit that they're wrong, just like George Shitzgall (the biggest cultist on the forum) will never ever admit that he's wrong regardless of how many times his pro-jewish propaganda is demolished. And just like Shitzgall, these Serbian nationalists (read: chauvinists) will never get tired of arguing about this topic, so you could debate them in the same thread day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year, and they will still spew out the same nonsense, without even showing the slightest sign of fatigue. Because, just like Shitzgall, they live for these kinds of conflicts.

^^ A cultist is someone who FUNDAMENTALLY believes shit, meaning there's no MORE fundamental reason for why they believe it than that they just believe it. I fight for White blood and the understanding/non-understanding innate in it ABOVE ALL BELIEF, so BY DEFINITION I ain't a cultist.

Coward is absolutely correct, though, that Whites can't Whitely debate beliefs that they are fundamentally loyal to (i.e. religious beliefs). If we are to be a race, we racial Whites gotta be fundamentally just White blood and soul warriors with no other ulterior agendas. This commitment to White truth is what differentiates a racially awakened White from a delusional cult-tard.

Posted by: @stewart-meadows

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Posted by: @dominus

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Beside the cleanse of the Italians, many more people were displaced from those areas and that displacement happened all over SFRJ.

What do those 700,000 people have to do with the Chakavian dialect allegedly "almost disappearing" from Istria?

 

Well, it has to do with the fact that the Chakavian speaking people in Istria were reduced partly because of that.

Posted by: @stewart-meadows

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I've told my story on VNN several times already.

I didn't read it or don't remember it so I'm asking again, were you born in Istra and if so, how many years did you spent there?

Posted by: @stewart-meadows

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Actually, you did call me Ružić, but I guess you now realize how ridiculous it sounds, so you've decided to lie and deny that you ever accused me of being this guy. If Varg ever restores the old VNN threads and incorporates them into this new version of the forum, I'll try to look up the post(s) in which you made this accusation. It's not really a big deal; I couldn't care less if some random dude on the internet claims that I'm some random dude that I've never heard of before, but since you're now denying it, I'll make an effort to dig it up just to show that you're lying about this too.

I know that I called Gorstak (on old VNN) as Ružić, and maybe even I called Rasen too, because both were sockpuppet troll accounts. If you were behind those accounts, then probably I did call you that but I definitely did not call you Ružić with this "Stewart Meadows" account so I don't know what the hell are you talking about.

Posted by: @stewart-meadows

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What's really remarkable about Serbian nationalists is that if you talk to them about matters that have nothing to do with the Balkans, they can come across as pretty sensible, intelligent and even nice people, but if you ever say anything that might be even slightly considered to be pro-Croatian (even if it's just the simple truth), they will go absolutely nuts and start attacking you and telling random absurd lies about you, and they will try to back up their bizarre anti-Croatian world view will all kinds of nonsensical ahistorical claims from obscure sources. It's a weird - and in some ways fascinating - transformation.

But the main point is that you can't reason with them when they reach this stage because they're cultists who will never ever admit that they're wrong, just like George Shitzgall (the biggest cultist on the forum) will never ever admit that he's wrong regardless of how many times his pro-jewish propaganda is demolished. And just like Shitzgall, these Serbian nationalists (read: chauvinists) will never get tired of arguing about this topic, so you could debate them in the same thread day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year, and they will still spew out the same nonsense, without even showing the slightest sign of fatigue. Because, just like Shitzgall, they live for these kinds of conflicts.

Sure, sure. Are you maybe some Croatian or relate to them in anyway? Because then I would understand your butthurtedness.....

Also, this "cultist" thing is Witzgall's rhetoric. You start to resemble him more and more.

@stewart-meadows

Истра

Institut Adriatique – Cadastre national de L’Istrie 1945
Фран Барбалић – Перој – српско село у Истри

This is all I have about ISTRA - I put entire Serbian, Montenegrin, Old Serbian, Kosovo, Croatian, Hercegovinian etc history books on forum but generally on Serbian...I will try to translate some parts. However it is thanks to dominus have tried to be more educational than i am and he send me one page of book i read in general, as one piece of paper imagine there is one piece as book.
In two volumes. Now I will see his knowledge about Serbia, which old name is Rashka with š Raška and Serbs back than was called Rascanians, or Rasi, Raci. I have a lot about Dalmatia, i put on place where me and dominus have discussion on Serbian so, I have to choose more for Europa section what links I will put. 
I like your opinion on Jewish question, I read last night deeply. All those who started wars, get rich a lot on Africa, those who bombarded Yugoslavia etc. they are all somehow Jewish ancestry. It won't open those books. 

Charlie Sheen has a new book coming out and in the book he admits to having sex with men at times. He described the gay sex encounters as "weird but fun". He also talks about being addicted to alcohol, drugs and sex for many years. I have never thought much of his acting ability.

I think he made it into show business because of his father's success.