All our lives we are taught by a thousand tv and movie images, that social uniformity and discipline is bad. Images of evil nazis, evil Japanese, evil Chicoms, evil Prussian officers, evil racists, evil Roman Catholics-- that's right, you Catholics, what do you think Prots are taught is wrong about Catholicism? Uniformity and discipline and hierarchy and order are "bad" and "repressive of the human spirit" and crap like that.

Americans buy into this totally and think that they are "free" because they have a thousand consumer choices. What brand of jeans, what flavor ice cream, what niggerball team to support, what gashog suv to buy, what McMansion to try and reach for-- what flavor of religion to "Freely choose--" that's the American idea of freedom. What alternative sexual lifestyle to practice. And so forth.

That's nothing more than consumer choice. License, not liberty. On the economic and academic level, the vague concept of "freedom" produces results. ON the social level, it produces a kind of atomizing chaos that trivializes real organic social differences, and obliterates them through blandishment and miscegenation-- reducing things into a totally polyglot mishmash that only a Jew or Judaizer can love.

When we are all disunited, and totally disparate and atomized, the Jew will be all powerful because they will have retained their ethnic-blood integrity, their religion, and with those two things their social power. They will take casualties too along the way-- but they are betting they can outlast us in the war of social attrition that is evolutionary competition in modern society.

You want to beat the Jew? I know hardly anybody wants to hear it but you will have to emulate certain group strategies that they are good at. You can call that trying to outjew the jew but really it's just about what works and what doesnt.

Well, this has all gone in several directions. I just wanted to clarify, the question I had wasn't about whether or not Pierce and/or NA was funded by anyone in particular, nor whether he and Mathews had a personal relationship. My back got up when I read the comments about him having worked as a plant or patsy for FedZOG. Thanks for the many responses.

Funny thing about Hoffman, when you peruse his site, it's chock full of references to books, most written by him, many of which are at first glance anti-jew:

Judaism's Strange Gods
Hoffman Contra The Khazars
Hate Whitey - The Cinema of Defamation
The Israeli Holocaust Against the Palestinians
The Role of the Merchants of Venom (The Trend Toward Shadow Play in the Resistance to Judaism and Zionism)
Witches and Rabbis: Legacy of the Reagan White House

However, there is a slew of crypto-antisemitism on the ultra-leftist Counterpunch site as well, and Cockburn is also notoriously "kumbayah" toward the jews while simultaneously calling for the putting down of Israel.

If there's such a difference between 'JUDEO' and christian, as I've heard tell around here ad nauseum, why then the flap over judge Roy Moore's refusal
to remove the ten commandments from his courthouse? Was moses a white man too? It was during this flap that the scum-bucket radio man from new jersey announced "If you're not white or christian then get the hell out of my country or I'll put a bullet in your head".
I've yet to hear of any "William Pierce-style Aryan Utopian" advocate such extreme medicine for xtians. I could be wrong about that but I'd like to see a little substantiation. Some clockwork orange type re-education might go a long way, however.

1. What do the ten commandments have to do with anything ?
2. He was a scumbag radio man doing "sensation" radio to broaden his listening audience and increase his paycheck.
3. Reconditioning? No, it is called wake up.
4. What does the history of jews have to do with White Christianity?

1. What do the ten commandments have to do with anything ?
2. He was a scumbag radio man doing "sensation" radio to broaden his listening audience and increase his paycheck.
3. Reconditioning? No, it is called wake up.
4. What does the history of jews have to do with White Christianity?

1. EXACTLY!
2. When a man threatens my life, I take him seriously.
3. For which there is a great deal more needed among those who incessantly whine; "I want to live in a White world but I can't just give up my irrational superstitions, Waaaaa, Waaaaa, Waaaaa!"
4. Define "White Christanity".
Was jesus a jew or not? Was moses?

"Christian values are good and moral values".
Prove it. Please name these, explain their origins, and tell me why they are "good".

And how are you going to defeat the disruptive types without discipline organization and some uniformity. Think about that. You dont have to like the work at hand you just need to get it done.

Actually me and ya are on the same wave.

I was trying to get across that the word ‘totalitarian’ is sometimes misused to build a certain kind of illogical fear within someone.
I am thinking more specifically the young neo hippie types, Goths, what ever young white that falls into this individualism crap, ‘I am so different, yet really we are all the same’ as masses of our young follow like trends i.e. tats and body piercing. One thing the left would use is an ill rational fear that if the ‘christian right wing i.e. ‘the white man’ stays in charge of the USA we would become, or even stay as some believe, a totalitarian nation. The misguided youth will believe Ya can’t live free where in fact we lived freer then than we do now with the pounding overpowering commie jew left totalitarian state coming down on us.

I mean think about it, they build a fear of right wing totalitarian within our young and then use left wing totalitarian tactics to protect them from the right wing.

1. EXACTLY!
2. When a man threatens my life, I take him seriously.
3. For which there is a great deal more needed among those who incessantly whine]

You all can debate that issue amongst yourselves.
In the meantime, whatever good moral standards you have did not come from the jews.
And as for Jesus, I would say he spent most of his time trying to explain to everyone what was wrong with the jews.
To the extent that they killed him for it.

In the meantime, a furthering of this is not conducive to the original basis of this thread.
Perhaps you would like to start a thread concerning this subject matter so that all may respond to it.

 

That's a nice, long tribute to Dr. Pierce, professor. I hope it will be professionally produced and spread far and wide.

The operative stanza as this poem/song relates to what we discuss in this thread is this:

He searched far and wide for just the right men,
then gathered them together and called them his kin.

Lots of folks have an interest in White nationalism and VNNF is full of them, all grades of them who are all over the board in their varying stages of radicalization, their beliefs and preferred methodologies, and the levels of activism to which they are willing to dedicate themselves. But the fact is, though, as I believe you understand, that from this diverse mob that's all over the board, only a very few are the "right men," the right human material, as Dr. P would call them, that have what it takes to rise and form the cadre of dedicated activists who can claim the title of revolutionary vanguard as Pierce envisioned. Believe me, it's not going to come from the halfbaked NSM, nor from Strom's National Vanguard, in name only. Nor can all the other various umbrella organizations that have popped up with their broad outreaches be considered revolutionary vanguard movements as Pierce envisioned.

Jane White, a former liberal, understands this, though she has only been around our radical race-thinking circles for a short time. Glancing at the posts in this thread I can say that AE understands this as does Paul Drake. There are probably others, even Steve B, though he doesn't strike me as being very serious about becoming part of a vanguard movement. It's only for the few serious and sincere right men Amalekite, though he knows a lot, strikes me as more libertarian in his approach. He seems to think there will be a White society, free of aliens without the troublesome requirement of bitter struggle against alien races who would take what we allow them to take from us. Lenin said "You can't make an omelet without cracking a few eggs; neither can you have a successful revolution without cracking a few skulls." Those we oppose certainly understand that. Revolution is dirty work that in its more advanced stages requires the busting of heads -- those we oppose and, unfortunately, those of many of our own thick-skulled kinsmen who collaborate with those opposed to us. Amalekite seems to want to enjoy a fluffy omelet without breaking some eggs.

Dr. Pierce started out with his head buried in his textbooks, a libertarian for the most part, but as he got more involved in investigating the world around him and searching for truth he became increasingly more radicalized and his heart hardened. He joined the lame John Birch Society at first, as newbies would have done in the 1960s, then sought out and met GL Rockwell and soon became convinced that the much despised NS approach had in fact been the most successful model to date with which to fight the Jew. He evolved and quickly eclipsed the toothless, anti-collectivist "do your own thing" libertarians and other such such political pygmies as the Birchers who steadfastly deny the Jew question altogether and the detrimental roll Xianity has played in our race's demise.

The "right men" to Dr. Pierce are those few who agreed with him, not those who disagreed with him. He made it clear that it was from these few who agreed with him that he would then build a mass movement of will and determination. He saw the incredible power that the Jews enjoy through their ownership and control of the news and entertainment industries -- more powerful even than their power of the purse strings in times past as money changers and usurers -- so, along with his attempt to organize a solid revolutionary vanguard he also became determined to build a mass multimedia network with which to bypass the Jews' mainstream mass media. Alex is attempting that here, but there is no vanguard movement beyond the word that preceeds "News Network." Maybe Jane White will start one. She seems to get what Dr. Pierce taught us better than do most men here.

You're believing the bullshit the Jews have been saying about Pierce for years I guess.

I'm basing my beliefs on what Pierce wrote in The Turner Diaries (and please don't say, "it's just a novel" -- that's about as lame as saying that Mississippi Burning was "just a movie") and on an ADV broadcast in which Pierce described what he'd like his future society to be like (don't remember the exact date or title of that show). They're also based on the general attitudes and rhetoric I've been seeing from some of his disciples.

I don't find a call for uniformity of message to be "totalitarian."

When I used the word "totalitarian," I was specifically referring to the future society these Piercian revolutionaries would like to implement (though why they're here talking about it, instead of out there doing it, is a mystery to me).

As for "uniformity of message," this is Linder's gig. How 'bout letting Linder run the place as he sees fit?

Incidentally, what "uniform message" should VNNF be used to communicate? Who gets to decide what this uniform message will be? Shouldn't you or White Will go out and start your own websites if that's what you're after?

There's something a tad hypocritical about someone using a "free speech forum" to complain about others having "free speech," don't you think?

What we have here is a generation of people who are weaned and trained by the Jewish-American "system" to be completely unruly, individualistic, and unable to subvert personal whims to a group purpose. "Like herding cats" for short. What some people take as "cultlike uniformity" about the old NA, I take for discipline.

I suppose most moderns would have considered Sparta a cult no? They took boys from their homes at 7 and put them in the agoge, where they had a thin cloak for their only garment year round and not enough food to eat for the next ten years until they were men. They were expected to steal to round out there diet but if they were caught they would be caned. And that was just the start.

See to lord it over a bunch of fucking slaves, that outnumber you ten to one, like the Spartans lorded it over the enslaved Messenian population, you need "discipline." Discipline and organization. Luckily some people understand that.

What are your thoughts on the NA as it is now?

I don't believe for a second that socalled Piercian Aryan utopians would implement a permanent totalitarian state along the Jew's fictional depictions of Nazi Germany.

Maybe White Will can tell us what his ideal future society would look like.

For starters, I'd like to know how he would go about implementing the eugenics plan which I'm sure his Piercian vision of the future must call for. Specifically, who is going to implement this plan? Who is going to hold the people implementing the plan accountable if they abuse their power? What criteria are going to be used to cull the white population? Should we cull people who have great athletic ability but who are dumb as doorbnobs? Should we cull cripples who have above average IQ's? What about people who have great artistic ability but are anti-authoritarian and "individualistic" by nature?

Consider that today, there are more police PER CAPITA in the USA than there were in Germany during that time.

You have no right to bitch about living in a police state if your dream is to preside over one.

But, do I think that discipline and a certain amount of uniformity are socially necessary and need to be imposed by force? You're fucking right I do. Otherwise I would still be a "limperterian."

There's a vast gulf between not being a libertarian and being in favor of a totalitarian state which doesn't tolerate free speech or free inquiry, and which wants to sterilize its own citizens in accordance with a set of rules which have never been clearly articulated. If I am wrong in thinking that that is what the Piercites are ultimately after, then let them step in and tell me so.

I mean think about it, they build a fear of right wing totalitarian within our young and then use left wing totalitarian tactics to protect them from the right wing.

I never thought of William Pierce or of National Socialism in general as being very "right wing." Franco would be my idea of a right-wing dictator. Hitler and Mussolini tended more towards the left.

Franco was a conservative fighting against revolutionary forces. Hitler and Mussolini were revolutionaries, although thankfully, not of an internationalist stripe.

I'm basing my beliefs on what Pierce wrote in The Turner Diaries (and please don't say, "it's just a novel" -- that's about as lame as saying that Mississippi Burning was "just a movie") and on an ADV broadcast in which Pierce described what he'd like his future society to be like (don't remember the exact date or title of that show). They're also based on the general attitudes and rhetoric I've been seeing from some of his disciples..

TD was an action novel, food for thought, and a money maker. It was not a political manifesto. Though, I find myself often in accord with the sentiments expressed therein as do many on this website I am sure.

As for "uniformity of message," this is Linder's gig. How 'bout letting Linder run the place as he sees fit? .

I got an open channel to Alex and he can contact me any time he likes. If he says so I would quit in a second and still have plenty to contribute to VNN. Is that what you want? Because you are inferring that I am somehow over-riding Alex's directives in some way. Far as I am concerned, I'm not. Just because I am a moderator doesnt mean I'm not entitled to my own opinions to, isnt that right? I can say a uniform message can be a good thing if I like. Banning you for saying otherwise would be over-riding his directives, have I done that? Now you had better think about what you are doing because people reading this might ask what kind of person would try and run a wedge between Alex and me by inferring that I was over-riding my mandate when I'm not.

Incidentally, what "uniform message" should VNNF be used to communicate? Who gets to decide what this uniform message will be? Shouldn't you or White Will go out and start your own websites if that's what you're after?.

VNNF is forum. It's used to discuss. It gives a space to White Gentiles to have their say where elsewhere it's suppressed. A space for people to interact and communicate. And other such ends. It's an educational tool as well. I am welcome to try and use it to educate and I am as welcome here as you are-- arent I? Or are you asking me to leave?

What are your thoughts on the NA as it is now??.

An organization in the hands of people who are incompetent and have broken laws to get their exclusive control.

For starters, I'd like to know how he would go about implementing the eugenics plan

You have no right to bitch about living in a police state if your dream is to preside over one.??.

What is this eugenics crap? I always hear this from people who are not quite there yet. The idea that "racist nazis" are going to "cull" harelips and people who are nearsighted. That is ridiculous. I remember reading last week that goofy fucker on CAH talking about that. What is his name, TJ ledee
en or something.

As for police states, as I observed you would certainly consider ancient Sparta a police state I am sure. But there are some types of UNIFORMITY, DISCIPLINE, AND ORGANIZATION that are necessary to beat a determined foe like the Jew and also to hold sovereign control in a non-democratic society with some caste in it.

I have a little book by a fellow named Tom Sunic, entitled "Against Democracy and Equality" or something like that. I'm on Tom's wavelength. I'm not on yours. You go ahead and sign up for Iraq if you want to spread democracy and all that crap.

Amalekite, though he knows a lot, strikes me as more libertarian in his approach. He seems to think there will be a White society, free of aliens without the troublesome requirement of bitter struggle against alien races who would take what we allow them to take from us. Lenin said "You can't make an omelet without cracking a few eggs]

1. If this is how you feel, why aren't you out there breaking some eggs as we speak? What's holding you back?

2. What are your specific goals? You want to overthrow our current social order: To replace it with what?

3. Where will you draw the line between a white person who is an asset to your cause and one who is a liability who needs to be eliminated?

4. I'd really be curious in hearing the difference between a white man who uses violence indiscriminately to accomplish his goals, and a savage in the jungle who uses violence indiscriminately to carry out his goals. Is there really a difference?

Dr. Pierce started out with his head buried in his textbooks, a libertarian for the most part...

I've long suspected that Dr. Pierce started out as a libertarian. There are a lot of valid criticisms that can be made against libertarianism, but Dr. Pierce seems to have had (IMO) an almost irrational hostility towards it. The people I've known who have had the most hostility towards Christianity aren't the ones who were raised atheist or agnostic, but those who were raised in intensely religious atmospheres. I sensed that same principle at work in Dr. Pierce in regards to libertarianism.

I always found it quite strange to hear him rant against libertarianism, while in the same breath, expressing his outrage at infringements against the Bill of Rights and at the "tyranny" of "the system." If the individual doesn't matter, then it really shouldn't matter if the individual has the right to hold private property, to say what he thinks, or to own weapons with which to defend himself.

A rational approach would be to say that some libertarian values are good (like free speech, gun ownership, private property, free enterprise), while others are bad. Individualism is fine as long as people understand that their well-being as individuals depends on the survival of their nation, and that as such, they have a responsibility to their nation, their community, and to their family.

I find it interesting that in The Turner Diaries, Pierce puts nation, community, and family at odds with each other. The protagonists in that novel often put "the cause" above their own family. I guess Dr. Pierce must've felt that family ties were one of the things that would have to be dissolved in order to create his New Order (whatever that may be).

However, there is a slew of crypto-antisemitism on the ultra-leftist Counterpunch site as well, and Cockburn is also notoriously "kumbayah" toward the jews while simultaneously calling for the putting down of Israel.

Certain left wingers have a problem with Israel because of its treatment of the Palestinians. They're not really anti-Semites, though "right-wing Jews" are fond of calling them that.

TD was an action novel, food for thought, and a money maker.

"It's just a novel." OK, fine. In that case, all those wonderful Hollywood productions the Jews send our way are "just movies," and we really shouldn't worry too much about the messages they contain. It's just entertainment, after all.

Though, I find myself often in accord with the sentiments expressed therein as do many on this website I am sure.

That's what I find scary.

I got an open channel to Alex and he can contact me any time he likes. If he says so I would quit in a second and still have plenty to contribute to VNN. Is that what you want?

You're not understanding me, and I'm not understanding you. I don't know what the hell you're talking about. Where was I asking you to quit? Your moderatorship has nothing to do with anything I said.

VNNF is forum. It's used to discuss. It gives a space to White Gentiles to have their say where elsewhere it's suppressed. A space for people to interact and communicate.

That is exactly what I originally said, and you flamed me for saying it. Now you are apparently in agreement with me. Which is it: Is VNNF a place for propaganda and one-way communication -- "uniformity of message" as you called it -- or is it a forum for free discussion?

An organization in the hands of people who are incompetent and have broken laws to get their exclusive control.

So what happened to all that discipline and organization you speak so fondly of?

What is this eugenics crap?

You're either being dishonest or you're very badly informed. Are you seriously suggesting that William Pierce was not an advocate of eugenics?

As for police states, as I observed you would certainly consider ancient Sparta a police state I am sure.

I know nothing of ancient Sparta, and I have refrained from commenting on it.

But there are some types of UNIFORMITY, DISCIPLINE, AND ORGANIZATION that are necessary to beat a determined foe like the Jew and also to hold sovereign control in a non-democratic society with some caste in it.

Well, be sure to let me know when the NA succeeds in defeating the Jew.

Just out of curiousity, who should the upper caste in our soon-to-be non-democracy consist of? Yourself?

I have a little book by a fellow named Tom Sunic, entitled "Against Democracy and Equality" or something like that. I'm on Tom's wavelength. I'm not on yours. You go ahead and sign up for Iraq if you want to spread democracy and all that crap.

That ad hominem is so moronic that I'm not even gonna bother with a response.

1.. at a free forum, I can talk about my belief that there is a time and place for tolerance of dissenting views and so forth, and there is a time when "uniformity" is desirable. I didnt say when or where, but you certainly seemed to suggest that I said we should have uniformity here. Well, on some topics, we probably should. There's a prudential balance about some things that sweeping generalities can't cover. Liberterians always are looking for those grand "principles" and I recall Ayn Randniks constantly dismissing pragmatism as unethical and foolish. So I get a little itchy when I hear people fussing too much either way.

2.. about eugenics. Eugenics is not about culling or whatever. Eugenics was practiced in the USA during the 20s in ways that was hardly inhuman. As Oliver Wendell Holmes said, "three generations of idiots is enough." I refer to the ridiculousness of these Jew-caricatures of eugenicists as murderous fanatics because those are the caricatures with which people are presented. Eugenics however goes all the way back to when people figured out through animal husbandry that certain heritable characteristics could be brought out through breeding.

3.. The Spartans, you should read about them if you want to hear about fanatics. I dont condone this, but they practiced infanticide on malformed newborns. We're not talking about that with modern eugenics-- although the practice of aborting downsyndrome fetuses is widely practiced today-- as is genetic screening for heritable diseases, and certain other sound practices that even the mouthy Jews do not disapprove of. But, I commend to you the book "Ancient Eugenics" if you want to read all about how the ancients did things and I will promise that your sensibilities will be shocked at how brutal some of the glorious classical civilizations were when it came to physical standards. My point is simply that I am not scared by the bugaboo of "eugenics." Sure, there are strange and geeky people who obsess over "eugenics" but really William Pierce was not one of them according to all that I know of the man from reading his words and speaking to his close associates.

As for caste in a new society, that would be determined as all caste systems have always been determined, by the sword. Namely, the strong will rule.

Strength of course can be measured in many ways and ability to pump iron is the coarsest and most insignificant kind of strength. The Jews, who tend to be utter physical cowards and weaklings, as a group are extremely strong and powerful due to their "uniformity, discipline, and organization." Their group cohesiveness, their intensity, and their ruthlessness all serve them well as a group in the material world's group competition for resources and power.

Right now in a matter of speaking the Jews have shown their group strength and with that strength have taken power. Whomever unhorses the Jew will inherit...... We are probably a thousand miles away from that and people like you may choose to mock us for trying but a fool can dream can he not?