You have "Holocaust" allegers and you have "Holocaust" refuters. The allegers use coercion to maintain their version of the story, and the refuters call for open debate. That tells me all I need to know.

I am no expert in "the Holocaust", but I doubt there were any homicidal gas chambers or any comprehensive plan for extermination. The more you think about it, the more the whole "gas chamber" thing sounds like a prop taken from a particularly cheesy low-budget science fiction movie. Seriously.

I would assume our beloved Jews experienced some rough goings during the Second World War, but so did everyone else. I don't see why Jews should get a special word for their suffering, or any special remembrance.

Yes...

Do you deny the Holocaust happened?

I haven't read it. What are some of the inaccuracies? If there are many what are the top three?

Don't waste too much time "debating" Hate Dept., he's proven himself to be an agent of disinformation. We tried to get him banished to OPPS for disrupting the various 911 threrads but the mods have no balls to do the right thing.

A lot of people here are extremely disappointed with Irving's recent statements partially admitting the truth of "the Holocaust". However, there is a certain sense in which the sudden, awkward retraction, coming from the normally recalcitrant old historian, actually does more to raise doubts and questions about "the Holocaust" than any of the usual Revisionist rehashing of obscure facts and various mathematical calculations would have done. The ordeal of Galileo almost automatically offers itself as analog in the minds of most non-Jewish observers on both sides of the issue. And we know which party history vindicated in that ordeal. That's clearly bothersome for many of the "Holocaust" faithful.

Yep. You can read no end of liberal-lefties both trying to support while at the same time denounce Irving. It's given them all a bad conscience. They can hardly scramble to their moral high ground of human rights and free-speech without looking like complete hypocrites over this.

Don't waste too much time "debating" Hate Dept., he's proven himself to be an agent of disinformation. We tried to get him banished to OPPS for disrupting the various 911 threrads but the mods have no balls to do the right thing.

No, you tried to get me banished (silenced) because you have feeble arguments.

I think Mike gave an excellent answer.

I think Mike gave an excellent answer.

Yes, he did. I agree that the holohoax days are numbered. Same with the official 911 story.

Yes, he did. I agree that the holohoax days are numbered. Same with the official 911 story.

Yeah well anybody who believes that there were no mass murders of jews during the Second World War, should drill a hole in their head and let the sap run out. I mean get real.

A bunch of people on this board scream that the jews should be done away with, then turn around and allege that the Nazis never did such a thing and if they did, the jews had it coming anyway.

If the jews were in the Nazis' position and it was gentiles who were persecuted, you'd be screaming bloody murder. Nobody would be denying anything.

The only way to make Naziism palatable to the public is to totally deny the so-called holocaust.

Yeah well anybody who believes that there were no mass murders of jews during the Second World War, should drill a hole in their head and let the sap run out. I mean get real.

A bunch of people on this board scream that the jews should be done away with, then turn around and allege that the Nazis never did such a thing and if they did, the jews had it coming anyway.

If the jews were in the Nazis' position and it was gentiles who were persecuted, you'd be screaming bloody murder. Nobody would be denying anything.

The only way to make Naziism palatable to the public is to totally deny the so-called holocaust.

American soldiers didn't liberate Auschwitz which creates a lot of mystery surrounding the Holocaust fable.

American soldiers didn't liberate Auschwitz which creates a lot of mystery surrounding the Holocaust fable.

This is true.

The holocaust industry is a never ending scam.

Where did Hitler get the Six Million Jews for the Holocaust?

World Almanac, 1940, pg. 129: World Jewish Population - 15,319,359
World Almanac, 1949, pg. 289: World Jewish Population - 15,713,638
World Almanac, 1996, pg. 646: World Jewish Population - 14,117,000

Yeah well anybody who believes that there were no mass murders of jews during the Second World War...I mean get real.

There were no mass murders of kikes, just justified executions.

The holocaust industry is a never ending scam.

Where did Hitler get the Six Million Jews for the Holocaust?

World Almanac, 1940, pg. 129: World Jewish Population - 15,319,359
World Almanac, 1949, pg. 289: World Jewish Population - 15,713,638
World Almanac, 1996, pg. 646: World Jewish Population - 14,117,000

Does anyone know the official Chosenite response to the above information? Has anyone here ever seen the 1940 & 1949 issues of the World Almanac?

Unshaven, unrepentant and unbowed since he was sentenced on Monday to three years for denying the Holocaust, 67-year-old Irving said American Jews - like those in Nazi Germany of the 30's - held "disproportionate power" in business, media and the entertainment industry.

"They are a very clever people disproportionately represented with extreme opinions and in 20 to 30 years the problems they faced in Nazi Germany will face them in America, I sincerely believe this," said Irving, speaking shortly after breakfasting on bread and black tea in his cell at the Josefstadt Prison in central Vienna.

"They expect special treatment. And special treatment, as we have seen, leads to Sonderbehandlung."

Here Irving used the German word of the cold Nazi bureaucracy - "special handling" being the rounding up, transportation and extermination of 6-million European Jews during World War 2.

'I know why I am not liked. I know why I am hated. I know what I could instantly do to be liked'
He went on: "Freedom of speech is the right to say things that others object to.

"The freedom of speech is also the right to be wrong. That has been taken away from me.

"They, the Jews, do not like it that they were partially to blame for what happened to them.

"I know why I am not liked. I know why I am hated. I know what I could instantly do to be liked. But Jews have not been liked for 3 000 years. I know this. It is a fault in our human microchip but there it is.

"Some years ago I told the author of Hitler's Willing Executioners Daniel Goldhagen that if I was a Jew in an anti-tank ditch about to be shot, my question would not be who was pulling the trigger, but why? I think it is the question of the millennium."

'My cell has a very small desk but at least there is no graffiti on the walls'
Irving claims he had a flight "paid for by the BBC" ready to whisk him to London to appear on the flagship Newsnight programme if he had walked free from Vienna State Court on Monday.

Instead, he was sentenced for speeches he made to right-wing student groups in Austria nearly 17 years ago in which he made statements that the gas chambers at Auschwitz didn't exist and that Hitler extended a "protective hand" towards the Jews.

He denies that he switched decades-long held views about the Nazi extermination programme only to save his skin.

"My position has been clear since then, I accept the existence of gas chambers and that millions died," he said.

But Irving is incapable of any seismic shift away from a regime he clearly worships and defends its leader Hitler with vigour, saying underlings organised the killings at death camps across Eastern Europe and in mass shootings in Russia.

"I think he was actually a weak leader who allowed those under him to do this.

"I am not the only historian who has defended Hitler - AJP Taylor also did."

He also said it was "not lost" on him that he is incarcerated for offending one religion when people who draw cartoons of the prophet Mohammed that inflame the Islamic world are still at liberty.

Irving didn't know that on the same day that his lawyer Elmar Kresbach applied for an appeal against his conviction and sentence, the prosecutor in the case had submitted a motion to the Austrian Supreme Court seeking to have his period of imprisonment increased, possibly up to 10 years.

"That doesn't surprise me though," he said. "I am a political prisoner. My lawyer actually said to me: 'You know you are a real martyr now.'

"Austria is caught in a political vice. I find it ironic that the arrest warrant against me was on November 8 1989, the day that the Berlin Wall was coming down and here in Austria new walls against freedom of speech were going up."

Irving complained that he needs medical treatment for a heart condition but that otherwise his treatment in the jail holding 1 200 remand prisoners was "perfectly correct".

He said he is locked up for 23 hours a day because he has no interest in taking a prison job - clerical, in the bakery or laundry - for 65 pence per hour.

He gets one hour's exercise a day - "in a yard half the size of my drawing room in Queen Anne's Gate, walking around with 70 other men who are robbers, rapists, swindlers, murderers and cocaine dealers" - and claims the other prisoners are astonished at his sentence.

"They say to me: 'What are you in for?' he said. "And I reply: 'For expressing an opinion 17 years ago.' They then say: 'Oh!'"

Irving, who dined on fish in cream sauce on his first day after being sentenced and who goes to bed at 7pm, went on: "I am quite solid in my own mind. Life is too short to worry about everything. I won't get bail while I am appealing, it has been refused three times in the past.

"My cell has a very small desk but at least there is no graffiti on the walls and it doesn't smell too bad. I am also lucky that it is a no smoking cell.

"I have had 600 letters of support since I have been in here.

"I have asked for a laptop to work on three books I am writing. I also asked to have books on Auschwitz from the prison library but these were refused me.

"But this is a good place for a writer to be - the solitude is good."

David Irving was sent to jail for denying Jewish superiority. His doom seals the reign of freedom that began with the fall of the Bastille.

“Do not ask for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee,” said the English poet, John Donne.

A shameful Austrian verdict bodes ill not only for the English historian David Irving (sentenced to three years of gaol) but for our freedom as well. Never has our feeling of justice been insulted like this! When an occasional dissident was jailed in Brezhnev’s Russia or Ne Win’s Burma, there was always an uproar of protest. Now the only response to the Irving verdict is stunned silence. When they sent innocent Muslims to the living hell of Guantanamo, we could think: they are people of the Third World -- different rules apply.

A Batista policeman in Graham Greene’s Our Man in Havana had said: some people can be tortured, and some can not.

When Ernst Zundel was kidnapped in the US and brought to trial in Germany, we could think: it is a German internal affair. Now an eminent man of letters, an author of widely read and acclaimed books, a recognized European figure was snatched from a civilised country and jailed for irreverence to the Jews.

Technically, David Irving was sentenced for so-called “holocaust denial”. But the concept of Jewish holocaust being the only enforced dogma of supposedly secular Europe has little to do with the Second World War and its atrocities. It has everything to do with the Jewish claim of superiority and exclusivity.

There is a Jewish prayer saying: “Bless you, Lord, that you created me a Jew, that you separated between Jews and the earth folks, like you separated between the Holy and Profane, that our fate is not like their fate”. The Holocaust concept is just another form of this prayer. They say that even their death is not like the death of anybody else. We must deny the concept of Holocaust without doubt and hesitation, even if every story of Holocaust down to the most fantastic invention of Wiesel were absolutely true. Therefore the technical discussions of Jewish mortality are perfectly legitimate but superfluous, like the argument whether a whale could swallow Jonah is superfluous for an atheist.

The legal enforcers of the Holocaust want us to bow down to the idol of Jewish superiority, or else! They won’t jail Deborah Lipstadt for denial of the Holocaust of Dresden, or Guenter Lewy who penned a lengthy piece entitled Were American Indians the Victims of Genocide? denying the genocide of native Americans. The Jews produced and published these denials for the same reason they published the Satanic Pictures - in order to emphasise the difference between a goy and a Jew. They want you to remember: you may profane Islam and Christianity, but not Judaism. You may discount the suffering of anybody but the Jews.

Thus we should say: David Irving was sentenced for denial of Jewish superiority. His doom seals the reign of (albeit limited) freedom that began with the fall of Bastille. European history went full circle: from rejecting the rule of Church and embracing free thought, to the new Jewish mind-control on a world scale. Not only is Western Christian civilisation dead, but even its successor, secular European civilisation, has met its demise only a few days after its proud and last celebration by the Danish scribes. It was short-lived: about two hundred years from beginning to the end, the Europeans may once have had the illusion that they can live without an ideological supremacy. Now this illusion is over; and the Jews came in the stead of the old and tired See of St Peter to rule over the minds and souls of Europeans

http://www.israelshamir.net/English/ForWhom.htm

It would seem the Jews are going to use probable Jew Irving to redefine "Holocaust denial" to be the belief that six million Jews were gassed because the Jews were asking for it. It will just be another, better word for "anti-Semetic".

David Irving is a hero in my book....I am without words to show my gratitude.