you will see how stupid your "Aryan" and Nordist bullshit really is.

The nordic character of ancient greece and rome was a sight more than 'bullshit'.

Gallus, the youngest of three children of Julius Constantius 7 (PLRE I, p. 226) and Galla 1 (PLRE I, p. 382), was born in 325/6 at Massa in Etruria (Ammianus Marcellinus 14.11.27). Ammianus describes him as handsome, with blonde hair, but "differing from the temperate character of his brother Julian"

http://www.roman-emperors.org/gallus.htm

In truth, Cleopatra was not really African. She was Macedonian (Greek), descended from the man Caesar admired most, Alexander the Great. Though blonde and fair ...

[Caesar] Augustus was chronically ill throughout his life. He was a short man, blond , careless about his appearance, and had bad teeth. Despite all this, he was physically impressive -- graceful and very handsome, with curly blond hair, bright eyes, and a calm demeanor.

http://www.royalty.nu/Europe/Rome/Augustus.html

[Julius Caesar] was a tall man, with broad shoulders, and blond hair. He is often portrayed as wearing a laurel wreath on his head, which he said was to emphasise his presence...
http://www.romans-in-britain.org.uk/bio_caesar.htm

In my highly arrogant opinion, Italian is unquestionably and overwhelmingly the greatest single culture in the history of the world. Subjective of course - but there is not a facet of human endeavor, particularly in the arts (all the arts), in which Italians have not distinguished themselves (in fucking huge numbers) over the last two and one half thousand years.

Italians are not Aryans because of supposed admixtures of nigger/Arab blood, etc.? All peoples have such admixtures - not least the Germans. Teutonic tribes begged sanctuary within the Roman Empire and finally overwhelmed it not out of the spirit of conquest but out of the spirit of abject terror of the eastern, Mongolian hordes who were raping, murdering and destroying them. Attila has quite a nice bunch of German federati in his train and the German nation has plenty of Mongol blood in it. As a thousand year long battle has been going on between Teutons and Slavs, there is also plenty of Slav blood in the Germans as well – particularly in (ex)provinces like Prussia and Pomerania.

Sure plenty of Germans are 'pure' but so too are plenty of Italians. This is an idiotic as well as pointless and suicidal subject...

Italian arms in World War II. It was important to get Italy back in the saddle as a good slave state right after the war, and so the myth of Italians and Italy as the stuff of wine bottle, love making and such got launched quickly by the winners - who write the history books. The Germans got turned into sadistic monsters and the Italians into grinning buffoons. Tell that to the hundreds of thousands of dead Italian soldiers and their families of World War II, or to the vastly larger number of civilian casualties of an uncompromisingly savage reign of terror waged by the British on Italian population centers. Is it necessary to vaporize Italian cities when Italian men fight so ineffectually? Logic would fucking dictate no.

The British Med. fleet was crippled for most of World War II by a brilliant and most courageous Italian frogman raid on Alexandria harbor. Italians (so said Rommel) fought quite well and bravely when well equipped and lead. Unfortunately Italians were usually badly equipped and lead and also badly trained with the result that they were unruly and unreliable. The Germans often complained about the raw quality of Italian troops and their tendency to break and run in exactly the same way that the Brits often complained about American troops. Ever hear about the very first battles fought by Americans in North Africa (the Kaiserin [sp] Pass - our debut in that war)? I imagine that most do not know about these engagements – out of a fucking comic opera which left the Germans AND Italians who won them laughing so hard they could hardly chase us back over the mountains. But we won the war, so we don’t hear about such things, while the Germans and Italians lost and so any opportunity to vilify and denigrate them is OK. But here, on VNN? You guys don’t fucking know what jew propaganda is yet? Italian armies suffered exactly the same agonies on the Eastern Front as did German armies, and suffered them as stoically and for just as long, and went into Soviet slavery with their German kameraden. Italians did indeed surrender in the thousands in North Africa but then so did German troops – Germany lost more troops in North Africa than at Stalingrad, after all. Italian advanced airplanes staged a spectacular raid on British oil instillations in Iraq because of which the stinking bastard British (who are finally getting exactly what they deserve after a century spent murdering Europe) were forced to heavily defend and garrison those instillations for the duration of the war. It was an Italian Air Force general who invented the 20th century doctrine of air power being the decisive factor in modern wars.

Italy was a poor country - and had been from the time that German barbarity had made it so. Mussolini had a very difficult job and like Hitler he fucked up here and there. The point is Germany and Italy had at best one chance in a million of winning that war. Making any mistakes had to result in loosing. And, unlike armchair computer game generals whose weapons are words and not blood the Germans AND Italians did not have the advantage of hindsight - which works so well to make every fucking body a genius devoid of bad decision-making.

Yes, Mussolini's greed lead to the war in Albania and then Greece (for which Ciano bears most of the responsibility - and from whose lies Mussolini drew his conclusions about Italian readiness for war). However - as many military historians have pointed out (and any perusal of weather patterns will confirm) Western Russia is a fucking swamp in the spring. Had Barbarossa jumped off when it was supposed to there is quite a good chance that the German armies would have gotten nowhere at all except 2 feet deep in mud. During every subsequent year of the Russian campaign, that is exactly what happened to the German armies in the east. The last German offensive of World War II was in Hungary and was stopped dead in its tracks by the driving rain turning the ground to mud that was the pattern in Russia every spring.

No, it is not Mussolini's unfortunate attack on Greece that doomed Operation Barbarossa but Hitler's constant vacillation in the face of 1.) success, and 2.) but not enough success in the face of the Russian tactic of retreating and retreating in front of German advances. When - despite great annihilating envelopment victories - there never developed the final total envelopment of the Russian army Hitler, for some reason probably having to do with not having the advantage of computer chat forums and of hindsight, kept shifting the objective – from Moscow, to Leningrad to the oil fields in the south. This is what killed any chance of the right side winning the war. The Germans - like we Americans in Iraq - never really had a strategic plan. In both cases, the almost mystical hope (instead of strategy) was that after a powerful punch, the other side would simply roll over and be dead. Neither the Germans then or we Americans now had/have a contingency plan just in case the other side declined/declines to follow that script. Having no real strategic objectives is what doomed Germany in Russia in the same way that we are doomed in Iraq.

I'm half German and half Italian and love (no, fucking worship) both countries and peoples and cultures. No fucking body is perfect, but the Italians and Germans come the closest. AND, unlike US - the Americans and brits...of, fucking sorry the 'Aryans' who for the most part write on this forum - both the Germans AND the Italians stood up for what was right, put their bodies where our BIG MOUTHS are and froze, hung on and suffered against overwhelming odds.

This is fucking irritating.

http://www.regiamarina.net/xa_mas/history/origin_us.htm

The origin of the Xa Flottiglia MAS can be traced back to the last days of World War I when two young Italian officers, Raffaele Rossetti and Raffaele Paolucci, sank the Austrian battleship (dreadnought-class) Viribus Unitis in the port of Pula.

The new device, nicknamed "Maiale", Italian for pig, was a modified electric torpedo. It was presented to a secret naval review board, which was easily impressed by the device's high maneuverability. The Maiale was quite ingenious. It used a modified torpedo with two saddles to accommodate two scuba divers, then known as frog men, who would wear their own individual breathing apparatuses.

During the same period, the Navy was experimenting with new scuba equipment at the naval base of La Spezia. Several techniques were studied and improved. One called for the scuba-equipped men, later to be named the "gamma", to leave a submerged submarine and attack enemy vessels. Also, a "marching" version of the same technique was studied, with the "gamma" actually walking the bottom of the sea up to the keel of the enemy vessels. Naturally, these actions were to take place in the proximity of an enemy port.

Contrary to your claim, British colonies, unlike those of spain and portugal were founded as implicit racial states.

True; and often, this racial element remained after they became sovereign countries. As in Australia's case, where the very first Act passed after Federation was the White Australia policy.

That's not to say that much, much race-mixing didn't go on in British colonies. Anyone who says otherwise either hasn't read enough colonial memoirs, or has a reason for doing so.

They are better off as city states other than anything else.

I've often wondered about this myself. Since after the risorgimento, I don't think Italy has ever properly acted as a country, as opposed to a series of city-states living in uneasy peace with each other.

How many governments has it had in that time... 60-odd? A record that makes even the political stability of, say, western Africa look good.

In many fields, Italians rival anything the rest of the world can offer. But in my opinion, the British (or the Germans, or any other number of European nationalities) were better nation-builders than the Italians ever were.

...It used a modified torpedo with two saddles to accommodate two scuba divers...

The Nips and Germans used such devices in JWII. Unlike them, the Italians probably forgot to activate the fuses before ramming them into ships

Italian frog men effectively scuttled the Brit Med fleet in Alexandria in WWII.

Germans are effective nation builders? Since 1870? We are on the 4th Reich, are we not? And, that 4th Reich is and has been an illegally occupied slave state for the last 60 years. Germany, in its entire history as a nation, has been stable for exactly 48 years.

Italy is indeed an artificial concept, in this case foisted by the fucking bastard Brits, and the French, without either of which she would not have existed. France provided the diplomacy to isolate Austria and also armies to help fight her in 1859; Britain provided the diplomacy to demonize The Kingdom of the Two Sicilies and also the navy to bombard the last Neopolitan army as it was valiantly defending itself under its young, courageous King at Gaeta. The House of Savoy would have had no chance against either Austria or Naples, alone. And The Kingdom of the Two Sicilies had been a most stable and prosperous nation state for literally centuries - far longer, in fact, than poor Germany will exist (the way things are going now in the final accelerated genocide of Germany and the German people). Naples was a major world capital city - one of the greatest in the world, that nation had an enormous gold reserve, one of the first modern rail networks in the world, etc. When the puny Kingdom of Sardinia conquered - oh sorry - 'united' Italy, it at once stole the Neapolitan gold reserves and then immediately spent then, and went into the same dept that characterized and characterizes all the jew-slave nations of the west. Naples didn't play that game, and also Ferdinando II when asked to head a unite Italy movement, said "no" as doing so would be treason to the lawful states of Italy and also sacrilege. A sense of honor is so rare in politicians it's near amazing to encounter such a straightforward and noble statement from one of them.

Still though - despite minor squabbles, both Germany (from 1870 to 1918 a loose federation of kingdoms an duchies) and Italy (a nation made by illegally usurping the rightful thrones and treasures of a number of peaceful states) are beautiful and great nations, which are united by custom, culture, a shared sense of identity and by race. I don't see anywhere near the conflict or hatred in the Italian people - from Alps to Siracusa - that I see right here in 'my own' wonderful country of the USA. All places have these conflicts, very much including the stinking British from whose hideous embrace Scotland removed itself a number of years ago if I remember right.

Take this 'we aren't really a country' shit far enough and you have a world where every 40 people have their own 'country' or more likely have some phony lying 'autonomy' under the sway of the UN or some other euphemism for the jew.

HH

And The Kingdom of the Two Sicilies had been a most stable and prosperous nation state for literally centuries

That's true. Which makes me wonder why so many of my own paesano from Lombardy, say, have this idea of Southerners as utterly useless bastards fit only for manual labour and enlisting as carabinieri.

In my own experience, Southerners are just as inteliigent as any other Italian, except generally more anarchic- it's the result of the 'tribal code' still being very strong in the South, and that attitude being passed on to Southerners in diaspora.

It's pretty easy to show that the South's sad state is the result of bad decisions made after the Risorgimento and to this very day, but no, if you listen to people ignorant of Italian history, it's the supposed 'racial make-up' of the South that is to blame for it.

The Nips and Germans used such devices in JWII. Unlike them, the Italians probably forgot to activate the fuses before ramming them into ships

By the 20th century, the fighter planes replaced the battle ship destroyers.

Air superiority won the war. In 1943, the allies had total air superiority. The late model P-51 mustang escorting the big bombers defeated the axis power.

Note: Goering’s insisted that they focus on building stuka instead of fighter’s planes which none were built in large numbers to counter the allies Blitzkrieg tactics.

After being retired from the Battle of Britain, where they were hopelessly outclassed, Stukas did become highly effective tank killers on the Russian front.

Which makes me wonder why so many of my own paesano from Lombardy, say, have this idea of Southerners as utterly useless bastards fit only for manual labour and enlisting as carabinieri.

It's pretty easy to show that the South's sad state is the result of bad decisions made after the Risorgimento and to this very day, but no, if you listen to people ignorant of Italian history, it's the supposed 'racial make-up' of the South that is to blame for it.

Southern Italy after the Piedmontese conquest is exactly analogous to the US south after the civil war - raped and conquered and to be used as the conquerors saw fit.

While the theory that those people who immigrate are actually better (those who left as opposed to the garbage that stayed in Africa when our species came into being, or we Americans of European stock) I think you can also make a good argument that goes the other way. The losers, misfits and defectives leave because they can't make it back home. I guess it all depends on individual cases. If I got this right - my understanding is that they used to rigorously ck the new arrivals at Ellis Island and an awful lot (particularly of the jews) were sent back as defective.

It could be that in such a deeply traditional culture as that of southern Italy, only the really desperate and hopeless would even think of going (or maybe were brainwashed by the lies vis a vis golden opportunities as slaves in northern Italian or US sweat shops). Perhaps only the worst dregs, overall, of southern Italians actually migrated to Milan and Turin. As unfortunately I don't read Italian, I'm cut off from the best written materials on this (or any other) subject.

By and large, Southern Italians - unlike northerners - were loyal to the Bourbons as they were later to be loyal to Mussolini. There were major pro-fascist uprisings in the south after we conquered it. And we conquered it by the largest amphibious invasion in the history of the world till that time (only Normandy would go farther). We didn't mount the biggest invasion in history because Sicily and southern Italy were expected to be pushovers. And, the conquest of Italy during that awful war was hard fought not just be the Germans but by many Italian troops who remained loyal to their allies (20,000 Italian SS men were murdered in cold blood after they finally surrendered at the capitulation).

The losers, misfits and defectives leave because they can't make it back home. I guess it all depends on individual cases.

Well, I don't know about America, but the majority of the Southerners over here came in the 15 years or so after WW2.

Which might seem like, uh, desertion in the countries' time of need, but really, the South was absolutely the last thing on the government's mind after the war.

In most cases, it was a case of 'emigrate or starve- not just you, but your entire family also'. For such a family-oriented culture, that would be have been a damn painful thing to do. That would've taken a lot of nerve.

Once here, furthermore, most have proved very loyal and very willing to assimilate. There's some disturbing elements in the culture of some of the younger ones, the first-generationers, though.

Mind you, my own family's only been here for 40-odd years, so I'm not in much of a position to judge.

..........Italian arms in World War II........- both the Germans AND the Italians stood up for what was right, put their bodies where our BIG MOUTHS are and froze, hung on and suffered against overwhelming odds.

This is fucking irritating.

Well that was a good post and it's always great when you write in. I hope you don't mind me having some fun with this topic. It was funny enough for the Italian barber that gave me my first outside-the-home-haircut to joke about and he was in Tripoli when it surrendered. That's where I got the joke about the Italian rifles.

Whatever I may dislike about Italians or Italian Americans, I don't really think it has anything to do with race.

That's true. Which makes me wonder why so many of my own paesano from Lombardy, say, have this idea of Southerners as utterly useless bastards fit only for manual labour and enlisting as carabinieri. ...In my own experience, Southerners are just as inteliigent as any other Italian, except generally more anarchic- it's the result of the 'tribal code' still being very strong in the South, and that attitude being passed on to Southerners in diaspora.

I have some friends in my neck of the woods who are Calabrese and they are very intelligent and hard working. They are quite dusky in terms of phenotype, but live up well to traditional virtues of honesty, integrity, civic duty, and all of the ones I know were decent wrestlers too. They have some shortcomings too of course one of which is too rapidly hopping on the local democratic political bandwagon and going along with shady rackets at the edges of same.

Hi AE. Hey, most Italian Americans, like most German Americans (like my entire family of Bush republicans, for instance) are a bunch of assholes who fell for the melting pot baloney instantly. They have pride in nothing except the actually non-existent and always bogus concept of this totally shitty (and it always was except maybe for the first few years) country of no past, no traditions and no values.

You are Greek and into it and that is natural and right and good as far as I'm concerned. And, you're a nice guy always.

It was not only stupid, but also wrong for Italy to invade Greece and what happened to Mussolini there is what should always happen to those with hubris. Ciano had a lot to do with that though as he more or less personally owned Albania and wanted more - so he lied to Il Duce about the state of the army, which like most armies out to do wrong, wasn't into it. I imagine that if Greece had set out to conquer Bulgaria, she wouldn't have done very well and for the same reason.

Germany's wars were purely defensive and just and that partly explains the superhuman performance of German arms. Italy invaded Greece for the most despicable of reasons having nothing to do with defense or honor. As much as I'm Italian, I have to say we got what was coming to us. Except the poor soldiers had no say in any of this and just did what they had to do (or get shot - the Italian officer corp. was the most elitist and distanced from the troops in Europe).

You know my views on this subject anyway - it's Europe first last and always for me, and Europe began in Greece, not Germany and certainly not in loathsome England. If you are white and are committed to our culture, you are jake with me - even Brits...sometimes.

What pisses me off is this uppity Teutonic thing, though it's idiotic to be pissed as I know full well just what real Germans think of not only German Americans but of Germans who happen to be from provinces other than their own. For Prussians, Bavarians and Austrians are nothing but emotional, ineffectual Italians or perhaps even niggers. For Northern Italians anyone from Lazio is beyond the pale while Sicily is just an extension of Africa, etc.