29 April, 2006

Hans-Herman Hoppe: “Down With Democracy”

Posted by alex in Geoff Beck at 5:40 pm | Permanent Link

A new Truth Is No Defense is available for download. This broadcast discusses the thought of Hans-Herman Hoppe.

Direct Download: gbtind1348k.mp3

Podcast: http://feeds.feedburner.com/thetruthisnodefense

Transcript: on VNN forum


  • 25 Responses to “Hans-Herman Hoppe: “Down With Democracy””

    1. Olde Dutch Says:

      Let’s not forget that von Mises was a jew, and his “Austrian” school is just another jew school of thought transplanted to the United States.

      This Hoppe cat makes only slightly more sense than Lyndon LaRouche, and that ain’t saying one hell of a lot.

      I do agree that Herr Hoppe is trying to avoid having an opinion. This avoidence of opinion is the libertarian form of a cop-out.

    2. GB Says:

      After reading your comment I’ve come to reconsider the entire concept of ‘communication.’

    3. TJ Says:

      Excellent show, GB.I had heard one of Hoppe’s speeches before, I think from Mises.org, which touched mainly on economic issues.Apparently he, like many Libertarians, intuitively have racial social and political leanings.Perhaps the Jewish leadership role in the Libertarian Party makes them hesitant to express them :
      ” …Jews never trusted their diaspora governments and never pledged their full allegiance to them. Independence of local Jewish communities has been the key to Jewish survival throughout centuries. Keeping government local and independent from a state authority is not just the Jewish way, but also the libertarian way.

      It is no accident that the founders of Western liberties and free market capitalism were generally either Jews or often quoted Jewish scriptures approvingly. Judaism stresses a person’s free will and that consequences will and should follow from choices. So too does libertarianism.”
      http://chelm.freeyellow.com/Jewish_index.html

      I have enjoyed all your programs-appreciate your efforts.

    4. dontgiveadamn Says:

      Yea and the only reason Bush supposedly likes democracy is because he cheated and won. Had the fuckerhead lost or not had the connenctions of the old man he would have hated it.

    5. Lokuum Says:

      TJ,

      Jews have always preffered strong central governments. Read about 13th century Poland. In Poland they leased and managed the land for the lazy Aristicrats, bleeding the peasants of every penny. It was during times when governments weakened that the peasants rose up to fight their oppressors, known now in our history books as religious persecution. The jews were also able to organize their community outside of the country at large, setting up their own court system. It is also well to note that at t his time Poland became an empire . . .yes, Poland. Now the Polish get to enjoy the butt end of every joke.
      Libertarians promote state rights, constitutional reform, a smaller less obtrusive federal government. For this the jews accuse them of speaking in (racist)code.
      We know who speaks in code. Learn the code. Liberty for them, marxist dictatorship for you.

    6. TJ Says:

      Perhaps the quote was confusing.My point was that The origin and leadership of the Libertarian Party is entirely Jewish-despite some sound (mainly economic) ideas.I think the link points this out:
      http://chelm.freeyellow.com/Jewish_index.html

    7. GB Says:

      TJ,

      Thanks for your comments, I found them interesting.

      Good grief, the Libertarians are shot through with Jews. God damn kikes! Any organization that wants to stay independent of the kike must explicitly forbid them entry, otherwise it will be consumed.

      http://chelm.freeyellow.com/Jewish_index.html

    8. New America Says:

      I think we have made a grave mistake, and one our descendants will curse us for – if we are so lucky as to have THEM Awaken to the fuller meanings of the critical issue of RACE – as in Peter Shank’s masterful formulation of FAMILY, RACE and CULTURE.

      Yggdrasil deals with the critical issue – the “Good Jew” we all know, and work with, in contrast to the group dynamic of a RACIAL CONSCIOUSNESS that sees us as the Enemy – the Asiatic Consciousness with a primal obsession with REVENGE.

      Edgar Steele summed up the classic rule of thumb in his classic piece, “NEVER Trust A Jew.”

      Steele said it best; for the one time in a hundred you are wrong, and are willing to learn from that error WITHOUT discarding the rule, you will be right NINETY-NINE TIMES OUT OF A HUNDRED.

      In EVERY organization I have worked in, WITHOUT EXCEPTION, the Jews worked as ONE to insure that THEY ran the show – one way or another.

      When they finally had control – again, WITHOUT EXCEPTION – they looked at the organization SOLELY as an exercise in FINANCIAL power – and eventually, ended up liquidating the organization, to their benefit.

      That’s the problem, you know, and it’s one we will not face up until it is too late, if ever.

      The Jews LOVE to claim that they have been kicked out of more than ONE HUNDRED NATIONS, and all of those nations have suffered.

      The rebuttal, of course, is that they HAVE been kicked out of more than ONE HUNDRED NATIONS, and not a ONE of them wants them BACK!

      They were kicked out because they stand before the nation like the parasite before the host; when the host has been drained of his life essence, the parasite moves on.

      If the host ever recovers, then the host has learned a hard lesson, and one it is not likely to forget.

      I used to be very sympathetic to the ideas of the Libertarians, and then, one day, I realized something.

      The Libertarians have not accomplished ONE DAMN THING, except provide us with dreams that keep us Asleep, while the Jews move relentlessly to sucking the marrow from our bones.

      Let me repeat that.

      The Libertarians have not accomplished ONE DAMN THING that is positive for our RACE.

      Not ONE.

      But, oh, the Dreams they sow, of a world full of Randian heroes who smoke dope, and read porno on the side, a world where everyone is, well, just like them in values, culture, and philosophy.

      To the Libertarians, national borders – the natural RACIAL and CULTURAL safeguard – are trivial mistakes made by people who fail to recognize the essential Oneness of the Libertarian conception of humanity.

      You will note, by the way, that they ALL have comfortable jobs, in taxpayer supported insititutions, in America; they seem to ignore the fact that Mexican culture, and the Mexican people, took a country of incredible natural wealth and turned it into…Mexico.

      Libertarians, who to a man are followers of Ayn Rand (the Russian Jew), would do well to consider that all of the truly evil people in “Atlas Shrugged,” particularly those in a leadership position, seem to have a countenance that could be described as… Semitic…

      Incidentally, you will note that ALL of the heroes and heroines in “The Fountainhead” are not just Aryan…

      They’re NORDIC!

      RAGNAR DANNESKJOLD, in particular!

      RAGNAR, THE WARRIOR!

      Perhaps Ayn was, even subconsciously, revealing a little more truth than she felt comfortable with…

      And perhaps, just perhaps, she was warning us, and was eerily prescient in sharing the words of Edgar Steele:

      “NEVER Trust A JEW.”

      New America!
      An Idea Whose Time Is Here!

    9. Outis Says:

      VNN: Unofficial Church of New America.

    10. Naro Says:

      I think Hoppe is brilliant, his lectures on Roosevelt and Hitler are fantastic and while he never mentions race his economic thought blends well with the white nationalist agenda. It is unfortunate he allies himself with libertarians and jews but that does not mean his work is wrong. Am I missing something? Do we really want Democracy? I hate so-called Democracy it is a brilliant lie as far as I am concerned.

    11. GB Says:

      Naro,

      > “his economic thought blends well with the white nationalist agenda”.

      Why don’t we hear more from him on Lew Rockwell? Probably because of that site’s utter fear of the racial question, and the inferences that can be drawn from Hoppe’s thought.

    12. Paul87 Says:

      I’ve read Hoppe’s book “Democracy: The God that Failed”. Some interesting insights, lots of interesting quotes/references, but generally not a good read, largely for the reason mentioned above: libertarians are too cowardly to mention race. They have to fill that omission with something, usually unworkable, and Hoppe proposes insurance companies managing national defence. Therefore some of the book I omitted or skimmed through, but: What is his alternative to democracy? (Did I miss it?) The failure to answer this is also a major failing of present day WN.

      Mass democracy has failed but what about some sort of Platonic/Founding Fathers democracy where people of proven responsibility have the vote? Messy, but what really is more workable, what has a more proven track record?

      I’ll be interested in your views on this GB. (Confession: I haven’t actually got around to listening to ttind13, but as I said, I’ve read his book, and I wanted to catch this thread before it got old and forgotten). Have listened to ttind1-12, thanks GB, very informative and well put together.

    13. GB Says:

      Paul,

      > What is his alternative to democracy? (Did I miss it?) The failure to answer this is also a major failing of present day WN.

      Let me start by saying that not all Hoppe says I agree with. Yet, I find his ideas interesting and workable. They fit well with my anti-liberal ideas.

      In the book “Democracy The God that Failed” the focus, IMHO, was not so much on the alternatives to democracy, but its failures. This is a brave assertion, for the entire media/educational complex argues otherwise.

      I think Hoppe, despite his disavowels, is a German Monarchist, my guess is his ancestors were Prussian, or perhaps a subject of the Hapsburgs, as was Erik von Kuehnelt-Leddihn another anti-liberal German, regardless, he sees the multitude and tangle of duchies, independent cities, fiefdoms, and royal estates of the high feudel (1100 – 1400) period as a superiour form of organization than Democratic states. This is also what Hoppe argues in numerous smaller essays and pamphlets.

      In lieu of a return to high feudalism, Hoppe has concocted this idea of insurance companies, as preservers of property and freedom. That is the nub of his alternative framework. I think this is the audio where he expounds on that idea: http://www.mises.org/multimedia/mp3/MU2005/mu05-Hoppe3.mp3

      But whether the national socialist ideal or feudel libertarian model is preferable, Hoppe, fails to deal with the bloody struggle that must ensue if we are to overthrow the democratic tyranny. He also fails to elucidate that libertarian societies are rare or unknown outside of the Aryan gene pool.

      Hoppe also addresses the American Constitution, Jefferson, and Jeffersonian Democracy, and declares those ideas flawed. I forgot what audio lecture that is in, somewhere in mises.org/media . In contrast Thomas Woods and the other kosher libertarians fawn over Jefferson and defend the constitution.

      Hoppe has guts and he fights for his ideas. I respect that.

    14. Shabbos Shabazz Says:

      Rockwell is financed by a Jew precious metals dealer. A regular columnist, one Bob Wallace, introduced a small amount of race into a column. Bye bye Bob- all previous articles were expunged from LRC.

    15. Paul87 Says:

      GB, I think you’re right, I don’t want to nitpick, he’s done well to get new ideas out and get his anti-establishment stuff published.

      However I think he (and all of us) should address more is what to aim for. The Monarchies of old succeeded (when they did succeed) because they did not have the immense and corrupting power of modern transport and communications. The average subject was, for most, or all, of his life, unaffected by government. Modern dictatorships have, in contrast, always been disastrous.

      You say “But whether the national socialist ideal or feudal libertarian model is preferable�. Possibly heresy on this site: I believe these are worse governments than what we have now. I just don’t think Aryans thrive on big government or big ideology.

      The problem I see is moving from this Judeo-liberal tyranny (“mass democracy�) into a race based Platonic democracy. Probably there is no clean, one stage solution. Revolution will probably be necessary but often brings the unexpected.

    16. Carpenter Says:

      Paul 87, you are right in that we don’t generally want as much control as other races do. That’s our individualist spark, which has served us so well in that it lets lots of different impulses compete, so we can see what works and what doesn’t. Our individualism has helped us greatly.

      However, it has also hurt us, because we mistakenly assume that since we can live without group loyalty, other races will too, once they hear what a great idea it is. “America is an idea”, right? We have allowed ourselves to be tricked and then swamped, because of our individualism.

      So we do need some big ideological control. And I think you are wrong when you say modern dictatorships have been disastrous. NS Germany didn’t fail, it was embargoed and then invaded. They had some economic ideas they would eventually need to change, but it’s the same in any nation. NS Germany worked. Fascist Italy worked, fascist Spain worked into the 70s, same with militarist Greece.

      Militarist Japan also worked. Iran also works, as far as a Middle Eastern country can. Iraq under Hussein also worked. (It was one of the richest Gulf states. And also one of the most secular, with alcohol and Western-like concerts. Just a funny sidenote.) China is a dictatorship, a fascist one by definition if not in name – a one-party state that regulates but doesn’t own all of production. It works. And Turkey, to a large degree controlled by the military, works, as well as Turkey can ever work.

      There are many other examples. I believe that without the other races around us, democracy could work among Whites – though it’s quite ridiculous, since it is to a large degree about what the media owners say. But we need an ideological, racialist state right now, to set a lot of things right. We can only have that through a one-party state. In a way it’s a “democracy of the fittest,” since the party will seek to gather the best and brightest in its ranks, then educate them in ideology, so they can join in the party work.

    17. Carpenter Says:

      The download took way too long for me. But I have read some Hermann-Hoppe. GB is right when he says Hoppe is at his best criticizing democracy, at his worst providing (unworkable, unrealistic) alternatives.

      Always the same with libertarians: at their best criticizing our masters, at their worst providing alternatives.

    18. Naro Says:

      Back when I went to a private christian high school and they were teaching us how to save the souls of the heathens, they taught us the first step in changing anyone’s views was to illustrate to them that they do have a problem.

      I dont mind anyone pointing out the failures of our current government whether they have a solution or not. In fact I prefer they dont offer a solution because then I can offer mine.

      Simply because a person does not have an answer to a dilemma does not make the dilemma go away, in fact it draws attention to it. So why should we condemn someone for making our work easier and destroying the lie that is democracy.

      In fact it should not even be called democracy. Calling our current government democracy eliminates democracy as an option. The government of our founding fathers was in my opinion much more palletable. After the civil war that government died.

      I would settle for any type of government if race was the first criteria for citizenship. If given a choice, the democracy of our forefathers would be the best option.

    19. Paul87 Says:

      Naro, I agree, I wrote this and then saw your post.

      Carpenter, I agree that some big ideological control must be utilised for our main need: which is protection from other races. And that this ideology must be incorporated into anything we do, if necessary at the expense of democracy or whatever.

      I’m just not convinced of the stability of fascism in white countries. Non of the many white fascist regimes lasted long. Race based qualified democracy has a better record. In the US, for example, it lasted for a century until the Civil War, and then, albeit in a weakened form, for another half century after that. (Although it eventually failed, so anything new has to learn the mistakes of the old).

      I concede however that a one party dictatorship maybe the only way out of this present mess. And I believe that the WN party will be what whites will want to follow when the going gets tough (sometime not so far away),

    20. Unreconstructed Strom Thurmond Says:

      GB – good comment.

      Hoppe’s understanding of the world is imperfect, but whose isn’t? He is an intelligent, insightful, and honest scholar. Most of us can learn a lot from contemplating his writings. I know I did.

    21. Lokuum Says:

      What Libertarians fail to connect is that it is their system which led to the very over reaching state we live under. Were not the people who increased the power and influence of government individuals acting in self interest? In fact it was the rise of the Bourgeois in 19th century America and Great Britain that saw their class power and influence with parliamentary style governments. Rockefeller, Morgan, Rhodes, Milner, and others played a heavy hand in WW1. Not to mention the German bourgeois that was very antagonistic to the Russian Czar.

      Hoppe now wants to roll back the clock and yet keep his philosophy by referring to monarchies as private owned governments and democracy as public owned governments, the libertarian argument of private ownership vs. public ownership. It’s a stretch in the best of circumstances. And in this one I’m afraid his research comes up short.

      During the great depression it was decided that all the western governments were bankrupt. They are now held in a trust by their central banks (private monopoly corporations) and are moving into insolvency. (Insolvency into a new world order?) The US is in fact privately owned.

      Libertarian writers, Alfred J Knock, Frederick Bastiat, La Bot’etie, and a host of others are all good and important reads.

      Libertarianism is based on the ideology that all men are free to enter contractual relationships. It led to democracy, the ideology that man was free to contract his political leadership through voting. Hoppe, a member of the most famous libertarian school, Von Misses, finds that there was greater freedom before man did so, and yet doesn’t see the paradox.

      Religious writers have been pointing out since JJ Rousseau that the fault of Libertarianism is in its foundation. Children do not come into the world through contractual relationships with their parents and therefore the most important relationship of civilization, the family, is not contractual, it is duty.

      The advantage of Monarchies was not the mechanism of private government ownership, although this may have played a role, but the symbol of state as royal family, the King as masculinity, the Queen, femininity; the dichotomy of which led to a blossoming culture, and a National identity.

      I particularly like Hoppe when he discusses how intellectuals have become the new high priest of today and academia the new state church. And he points out the danger of the anonymously owned state which is our democracy. But he fails to mention the anonymous corporate monopolies, weather it’s Exxon, Haliburton, GE or the central banks. He also ignores that it was private money that helped to create big central states in the first place and their interdependent relationship. And of course like all libertarians he fails to recognize groups. Or any sense of duty outside of individual choice.

    22. Carpenter Says:

      Good posts, gang. I listened to the broadcast now; it is a good one. Though the little statelets Hoppe envisions, modelling them on medieval Europe – there is a reason those little statelets merged into larger nations. The large nation has power and can protect itself. Why wouldn’t the same thing happen again?

      It is interesting to note that Duty, this concept that had always been an integral part of Western philosophies, has no place in libertarian philosophy, nor in the socialism it criticizes. Nationalism truly is the ideology that carries on old European ideals in an updated version.

      Paul 87, I believe the fascist Western states – Spain, Portugal, Greece, South Africa – died due to outside pressure and outside influence. For one thing, the people watched foreign movies and TV shows and decided “We want to be like them.” Shame, shame on the fascist, Hollywood tells us.

      Lokuum, you mention corporations wedded to the state – but these have no real political influence, at least not when it comes to where the national ship is headed. In fact, the partnership goes like this: they get some sweet deals and tariffs against outside competition, and in return they promise to promote the States’ political agenda. Diversity and the like.
      You forget a far more important influence: workers’ votes. These are the votes that brought communist and socialist parties to power in Western Europe and elsewhere, and these parties expanded state control across every field. Not politically correct to mention in a nationalist movement, I agree, but it’s true.

    23. Agis Says:

      Freedom is the luxury of supremacy. Where there is a ‘democracy’ we, as a race, are on the way out. Just like ‘mulitculturalism’ is name attributed to the process which begins with the first non-white moving in and the last white moving out.

      Whites are projected to become 2-3% of the world population in the next 50 years. Democracy will suit their purposes even less than it has served ours.

      First there is the concept of ‘people’ (i.e. ‘whites’ within a narrow racial classification) then there is the ‘state’ (which enforces the laws) and lastly the management of the ‘state’. There’s really nothing to ‘fear’ of except our own slavery.

    24. Tim Johnson Says:

      Lokuum,

      You hit the nail on the head here:

      “Libertarianism is based on the ideology that all men are free to enter contractual relationships. It led to democracy, the ideology that man was free to contract his political leadership through voting…The fault of Libertarianism is in its foundation. Children do not come into the world through contractual relationships with their parents and therefore the most important relationship of civilization, the family, is not contractual, it is duty. The advantage of Monarchies was not the mechanism of private government ownership, although this may have played a role, but the symbol of state as royal family, the King as masculinity, the Queen, femininity; the dichotomy of which led to a blossoming culture, and a National identity.”

      Sorry to repeat all that, but it is brilliant. Food for thought.

      I think we have to start questioning the purpose of government. Sure, there are plenty of little purposes (plural) someone can recite (protect us against criminals, provide prescription drugs, oversee international agreements, blah blah blah). But what’s the BIG purpose of society? Why come together at all? To promote our genes/advance our posterity.

      Without our eye on the ULTIMATE BIG PURPOSE (the raison d’etre) of society, political philosophy is just so much flatulence.

    25. Lokuum Says:

      Shouldn’t we have a vote on weather or not
      to have a democracy.

      Sorry, couldn’t help myself.